WORTH READING [Comcast unveils online viewing of cable TV shows]

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jason Livingood <jason_livingood () cable comcast com>
Date: December 17, 2009 8:27:28 AM EST
To: Matthew Tarpy <tarpy () tarpify com>
Cc: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>, ip <ip () v2 listbox com>
Subject: Re: [IP] WORTH READING [Comcast unveils online viewing of cable TV shows]

It’s an admission that, from a bytes accounting standpoint, a byte from a Comcast Internet-based application is counted 
the same as a byte from a non-Comcast Internet-based application.  So regardless of the source or destination on the 
Internet, bytes are counted the same from the standpoint of our 250GB Internet data usage limit for our residential 
Internet service.

Hope that helps.  Aside from these more mundane (though not unimportant) usage accounting questions, I do think we’re 
seeing some interesting things occur here with the actual service itself.  I love the smell of convergence in the 
morning...  ;-)

Jason

On 12/16/09 5:31 PM, "Matthew Tarpy" <tarpy () tarpify com> wrote:

> So may we take that as a tacit admission from Comcast that bits are bits; regardless of source...or is this just a 
> convient position because you may now have a compelling offering?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 16, 2009, at 4:19 PM, "Jason Livingood" <jason_livingood () cable comcast com> wrote:
>
> > I understand your concern but if you look at it a different way I think you’ll see the challenge here.  If we 
> > excepted our own Internet video service from our Internet data usage limit, I suspect we’d be hearing from competing 
> > Internet video service providers saying that this was unfair.  So that issue aside, 250GB is IMHO a substantial 
> > amount of data usage and should be able to handle a great deal of Internet video consumption.  
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > On 12/16/09 4:59 PM, "Matthew Tarpy" <tarpy () tarpify com <mailto:tarpy () tarpify com> > wrote:
> >
> > > Jason--
> > >
> > > So let me get this straight, I already pay you (Comcast) in the neighborhood of $50/month for my HSI, and now you 
> > > want to charge me for your online TV service (if I go over my 250GB/mo cap) IN ADDITION to the $85 or so a month 
> > > you get for cable from me. Pardon me for being blunt, but exactly how much a month do you all want from my wallet?
> > >
> > > Perhaps I need to pay more attention to those RCN and U-verse fliers I come home to on my door. 
> > >
> > > --m
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Dec 16, 2009, at 3:03 PM, "David Farber" <dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Begin forwarded message:
> > > >
> > > > From: Jason Livingood <jason_livingood () cable comcast com <mailto:jason_livingood () cable comcast com> >
> > > > Date: December 16, 2009 3:32:45 PM EST
> > > > To: Dave Farber <dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net> >
> > > > Subject: Re: [IP] [Comcast unveils online viewing of cable TV shows]
> > > >
> > > > Hi Dave -
> > > >
> > > > It wasn't clear to me if Bob was referring to our 250GB data usage limit or
> > > > our congestion management system, so I will try to answer both questions.
> > > >
> > > > Bandwidth consumed by Comcast's Internet-based services/sites, such as
> > > > Fancast Xfinity TV, *IS* counted against our 250GB residential Internet data
> > > > usage limit just as we would count traffic to any other Internet-based site
> > > > or service.
> > > >
> > > > Also, FWIW, the video is variable bit rate, currently ranging from 36kbps to
> > > > 1.4Mbps for SD content and up to 2.4Mbps for HD content.  That leads me to
> > > > speak to whether or not using this (or other) video service would on it's
> > > > own prompt someone to have their traffic moved from Priority Best Effort to
> > > > Best Effort QoS marking by our congestion management system (see
> > > > http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-livingood-woundy-congestion-mgmt-01.txt 
> > > > <http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-livingood-woundy-congestion-mgmt-01.txt>  
> > > > <http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-livingood-woundy-congestion-mgmt-01.txt 
> > > > <http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-livingood-woundy-congestion-mgmt-01.txt> > ).
> > > >
> > > > Keep in mind that a first condition must be met, that an interface on a CMTS
> > > > must be in a Near Congestion State (section 5.1 of the I-D).  In this
> > > > example of video streaming, that would affect the downstream interface of a
> > > > CMTS, and that interface would need to be at least 80% utilized for at least
> > > > 15 minutes.  So once that condition has been met, which is very rare and
> > > > infrequent, then a user would need to have exceeded 70% of their provision
> > > > speed for at least 15 minutes.
> > > >
> > > > So for most customers, which have 12Mbps downstream service, that would mean
> > > > they'd need to consume 8.4Mbps continuously for 15 or more minutes (while
> > > > the CMTS is also in a near congested state).  Fancast Xfinity TV's HD
> > > > content streams as high as 2.4Mbps, so you'd be nowhere near that in the
> > > > worst case, and even further below that with SD content.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Jason Livingood
> > > > Comcast - Internet Systems Engineering
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/15/09 11:31 PM, "Dave Farber" <dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Begin forwarded message:
> > > > >
> > > > > For IP:
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't help but wonder if too much viewing their internet content will cause
> > > > > one to be a "bandwidth hog" and get throttled.  Or does that only apply to
> > > > > other sources of Internet content?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------
> > > > >
> > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_comcast_online_video 
> > > > > <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_comcast_online_video>  
> > > > > <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_comcast_online_video 
> > > > > <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_comcast_online_video> > 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "PHILADELPHIA – Comcast Corp. customers can now watch several cable TV shows
> > > > > and movies over the Internet, a move aimed at helping the cable TV operator
> > > > > manage the flight of viewers to online video.
> > > > >
> > > > > Comcast hopes that by making the service available starting Tuesday
> > > > > exclusively to subscribers, it can keep them from defecting to rival TV
> > > > > providers or the Internet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Comcast, which announced the service in July before reaching a deal for
> > > > > majority control of NBC Universal, becomes the first cable TV operator to
> > > > > offer cable content online at no additional charge. Until now, programs
> > > > > available for free online have been generally limited to shows from the
> > > > > over-the-air broadcasters or to older movies.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other subscription-TV operators with similar plans in the works include Time
> > > > > Warner Cable Inc. and Verizon Communications Inc.'s FiOS service.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Comcast service, renamed Fancast XFinity TV from On Demand Online when
> > > > > first announced, will initially be available only to those who buy both
> > > > > Comcast's TV and Internet services. Those customers will be able to access the
> > > > > programs on computers anywhere, even at a friend's house using a rival
> > > > > broadband service.
> > > > >
> > > > > In six months, Comcast said cable TV customers who use another Internet
> > > > > service provider will have access as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Customers can authenticate up to three devices — for now PCs, but mobile
> > > > > devices are possible next year — to access the cable content."
> > > > > .....




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