Re: Penny Black & bandwidth

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Dan Lynch <dan () lynch com>
Date: October 17, 2008 12:12:32 PM EDT
To: Scott Moskowitz <scott () bluespike com>
Cc: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>
Subject: Re: for IP : Penny Black & bandwidth

Scott, the "cost" I am trying to minimize is human time to filter  
through
the false positives that inevitably happen. Machines will always be  
cheaper
than humans. As for the system architecture of who pays the "penny" I  
leave
that to others to decide.  But it has to be like the postal systems:   
you
gotta pay upfront to insert anything into the system.

Dan


On 10/17/08 6:39 AM, "Scott Moskowitz" <scott () bluespike com> wrote:

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> I object! With due respect, of course.
>
> It is not monetary consideration that should be charged but bandwidth
> which is the commodity being scaled. It is the "medium of exchange"
> in our networks and is thus a more appropriate means of measurement.
> Allowing ISPs to charge for something without regards for a
> consistent business model never getting the competitive juices
> flowing in the market - more to the point, ISPs sell the user data
> anyway under the rubric of SEO/small business marketing/etc. Plus,
> how can you expect such a system to work between providers when a
> comparable market, namely text, has not been subject to competition
> in a market sense.
>
> If you know what your network is & how it is defined between you and
> your provider then business models can evolve. E-mail is a service
> that can be priced in terms of bits per seconds, arbitrary values
> like a penny should be discouraged to better value information
> services; but, the apparent refusal to price this way must mean there
> is too much value in providing it for "free" - spam has more value
> than free e-mail to the provider. Next, bandwidth is continually
> getting cheaper - the kilowatts to run all these machines is not. So,
> ideally, the value add in labor to innovate against these purely
> human problems ("spam" must work or humans would not do it & ISPs
> would not tolerate it to the extent they do - *or* the cost is
> already being borne by us with little "objections") exists to solve
> the problem.
>
> Last, how do we do the accounting? What is a fair split between "my
> network" & the access I get from the ISP? Do sender & receiver pay?
> If so, why? The preference would be to assume that the ISP will
> continue to emphasize billing & advertising as the bulk of their
> expenses while forcing them to allow innovators to maximize the bits
> in any bit per time calculation of their choosing within reasonable
> terms of service with their provider  concerning what is "my network"
> & what is the provider's? Billing on that basis is more likely to
> enable more innovation around the network instead of fights over
> whose penny it is.
>
> I do agree with Prof. Farber - a penny today may indeed be zero cents
> in three years - probably sooner.
>
> Sincerely,
> Scott Moskowitz
> http://www.bluespike.com/
>
>
>
> I would bet that most ofany money would go to overhead of billing and
> staff. It is one way to kill email I guess. Also a penney today and 0
> cents in three years
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Dan Lynch <dan () lynch com>
> Date: October 16, 2008 12:04:35 PM EDT
> To: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>
> Subject: Re: [IP] Re:      Comcast blocking mail to its customers
>
> Why don't we admit that the root of the problem is money?  Both the
> source
> of the problem of spam and the solution to it.
>
> Spammers do it to make money.  Duh...  And since email is essentially
> "free"
> they are sending out billions of free emails.
>
> A "solution" is to charge for email.  A penny a post.  That will stop
> bulk
> spammers dead in their tracks. And which of us is not willing to  
> spend a
> penny per email sent?  (We already do spend more than that with our  
> ISP
> charges and equipment amortization.) Oh, I know there are problems  
> with
> implementing such a system, but the benefit is huge.  The penny  
> could do
> into a Universal Fund (to be fought over, for sure) and non profits
> could
> apply for refunds for their causes, etc.
>
> Bring on the objections!
>
> Peace,
> Dan
>
>
>
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