Re: DPI and my testimony to Congress today

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

________________________________________
From: Gerry Faulhaber [gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:10 PM
To: David P. Reed; David Farber
Cc: ip
Subject: Re: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today

A rather cheesy note, David R.  While I disagree with you, I didn't call you
a "sociopath" (or any number of names that might fit the occasion).  Nor did
I disparage your profession.   And how could you possibly construe my note
to mean that I think CEOs *should* spy on customers?  Nowhere in the note is
there anything close to this, and you know it, David.  Is attempting to
smear others the way you conduct discourse?  If so, do you think you are
acting ethically?

Of course we have ethics, and many businesses follow ethical principles.
However, I'm pretty sure that some businesses do not see DPI as an ethical
issue, even though you do.  Of course if enough customers believe DPI is
unethical and are therefore more likely to switch to a carrier that commits
not to do it, or you implement encryption, then DPI is a bad business
strategy and firms will eschew it.

My point is simply that you cannot count on others sharing your view of what
is right and wrong, ethical or not, and acting the way you thinik they ought
to act.  If you think they are behaving badly, encrypt or get a law passed.

Gerry Faulhaber

----- Original Message -----
From: "David P. Reed" <dpreed () reed com>
To: <dave () farber net>
Cc: "ip" <ip () v2 listbox com>; "Gerry Faulhaber" <gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today


> Gerry - the idea that the law is the only limit to behavior may be how you
> think.
>
> I grew up in a world where people considered their impact on others
> without needing a law.  I open the door for other people without being
> required to.
>
> When I was a vice president at Lotus, I made business decisions with
> ethics in mind as well as the law.  I treated my employees well because I
> thought it was the right thing to do.
>
> It sounds like you think differently.  I hesitate to use the word, but the
> definition of a person who does everything he or she is not forcibly
> prevented from doing is a "sociopath".
>
> Are you advocating sociopathic behavior when you say CEOs *should* spy on
> their customers' traffic and modify packets merely because it is not
> against the law?
>
> If so, I can understand why people hate economists and CEOs.
>
> - David
>
> David Farber wrote:
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Gerry Faulhaber [gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:00 AM
> > To: David Farber
> > Subject: Re: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today
> >
> > [for IP, if you wish]
> >
> > Well, DJF, I don't agree with DRP.  Here's why:
> >
> > In any commercial transaction (buying a car, haircut, or ISP services),
> > parties are limited by the law, regulation, and the contract/terms of
> > service.  Anything else is fair game; people can do what they want.
> > Disclosure will occur if there are regulations/ToS requiring it;
> > otherwise,
> > it will be as the market dictates.
> >
> > Are there regulations regarding, say, US mail privacy?  Yes; see
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrecy_of_correspondence .  However, this
> > has
> > recently been under attack.  How about FedEx?  Can't find anything on
> > this
> > topic, so I would assume no.  E-mail privacy?  I think we all know the
> > answer to that: NO.  Telephone privacy? Yes, as a matter of
> > regulation/law,
> > except of course with wiretaps.
> >
> > Is there a law/regulation against DPI?  No?  Well, then, expect it.  This
> > is
> > way different that "applaud [ing] criminals who rob people in dangerous
> > parts of the city"; robbing people is illegal; but as far as I know, DPI
> > isn't.
> >
> > Now maybe DPI is not a good long-run business strategy, and maybe people
> > will demand privacy guarantees as part of the service.  But I haven't
> > seen
> > that happen yet in the online world (e.g., e-mail).
> >
> > So, yes, by all means protect yourself: e-mail, DPI, even FedEx if you
> > think
> > it necessary.
> >
> > Professor Gerry Faulhaber
> > Wharton School, Penn Law
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Farber" <dave () farber net>
> > To: "ip" <ip () v2 listbox com>
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:30 AM
> > Subject: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today
> >
> >
> > Gads I agree with David djf
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: David P. Reed [dpreed () reed com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:31 AM
> > To: David Farber
> > Cc: ip
> > Subject: Re: [IP] Re:    DPI and my testimony to Congress today
> >
> > I find the ensuing discussion enlightening.  Without mentioning names
> > (you all know who they are) the justification of DPI is that:
> >
> > a) people are fools for not encrypting their traffic.   I suppose
> > customers of FedEx are fools for not enclosing their shipped goods in
> > welded shut titanium boxes that will explode if x-rayed.
> >
> > b) I'm good but they are bad.
> >
> > These two themes seem intended to distract from the fact that ISPs are
> > trialing technology explicitly designed to scan all traffic.
> >
> > The arguments of people replying seems to be that bad behavior is
> > *justified* by the ability to do it.
> >
> > I'm tempted to wonder whether they applaud criminals who rob people in
> > dangerous parts of the city.  Or people who photograph their neighbors
> > through open windows.
> >
> >
> >
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