Re: Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web Site?

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

________________________________________
From: Paul Levy [plevy () citizen org]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:20 AM
To: David Farber
Subject: [IP] Re:  Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web Site?

There is an excellent article on the underlying situation in today’s
Post, including some useful details that have not been mentioned in
previous posts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/01/09/ST2008010903418.html?hpid=features1&hpv=local.

It turns out that the family that created the false identity (according
to them, to try to worm out of the victim whether she was spreading
false rumors about their daughter’s sexual orientation) was shunned by
the community, strangers drive by their house and yell "murderer", their
business failed, their daughter is too shaken out to go back to school.
And there does seem to be lots of blame to go around for the series of
events that led to the victim’s suicide.

Wholly apart from the free speech ramifications of criminal prosecution
of a Missourian who created a false MySpace identity, and I certainly
agree with the concerns expressed by Lauren Weinstein and others in that
regard, the underlying facts leave one wondering what the real need for
a criminal sanctions is.  Both the “punishment” (in terms of the
social consequences for the potential defendants) and “deterrence”
(if you do this you too could have your lives ruined by the
community’s reaction) objectives seem to have been served here.  Of
course, one of the reasons for these consequences is the outraged
reactions of their neighbors and, eventually, of the many in the
Internet community.  If "cyberbullying" is subject to criminal
prosecution, is the community response also criminal?  Where does it
end?

One other question that ought to be raised about the criminal
investigation. The local federal prosecutors passed on the case, but it
is the LA federal prosecutors who are now pursuing the possible theory
that a crime is committed at MySpace’s offices when someone creates a
false MySpace identity.  If a possible consequence of registering with
MySpace is facing possible criminal prosecution in California (and
having to hire a criminal lawyer in Los Angeles to deal with that
prospect), who can afford to use MySpace?

Paul Alan Levy
Public Citizen Litigation Group
1600 - 20th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009
(202) 588-1000
http://www.citizen.org/litigation

> > > David Farber <dave () farber net> 1/10/2008 5:17:08 AM >>>

________________________________________
From: Brock N. Meeks [bmeeks () cox net]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:04 AM
To: David Farber; patrick () ianai net
Subject: Re: [IP] Re:  VERY TRUE Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a
Web Site?

Patrick writes: "There is also no law against yelling "fire" _outside_
a
crowded  place." Actually, there is no law stopping you from yelling
"FIRE"
in a crowded place either.

During many panels on free speech, to make a point, I've suddenly
jumped
from my seat, pointed at the back of the room and yelled "Fire!!" at
the top
of my voice.

And then I sat down without a word, the audience looked bewildered and
probably a little embarrassed for me.  I just waited for the audience
to
absorb the object lesson.

The legal ramifications kick in only if a riot or stampede ensued after
I
shouted fire.

And some have argued that yelling "fire" when the person knows there to
be
no fire with the sole intent to create a riot is an issue of fraud, not
free
speech.


On 1/9/08 11:38 AM, "David Farber" <dave () farber net> wrote:

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick () ianai net>
> Date: January 9, 2008 11:04:49 AM EST
> To: dave () farber net
> Cc: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick () ianai net>, Andrew Burnette
<acb () acb net
> > , Frode Hegland <frode () hyperwords net>
> Subject: Re: [IP] VERY TRUE Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web
> Site?
>
> On Jan 9, 2008, at 3:58 AM, David Farber wrote:
>
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Frode Hegland [frode () hyperwords net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:45 AM
> > To: David Farber; acb () acb net
> > Subject: Re: [IP] Re:  Can You Go to Prison for Lying to a Web
Site?
> > Yes.
> >
> > The sooner we realize that the internet is not some separate,
> > parallel, 'second life' but a communications media part of our
> > 'real' world, the better we will all be.
>
> One of us is confused.
>
> If I walked up to you and said "I'm a dog", no prosecutor in the
> country would dream of prosecuting me for fraud.  It is not fraud
"in
> real life", has never been fraud, and should not be fraud on the
> Internet.
>
> There is also no law against yelling "fire" _outside_ a crowded
> place.  And last time I checked, my e-mail inbox was not crowded.
> (Well, not in that way. :)
>
> Yes, the Internet is just another means of communication.
Different,
> not better or worse.  Stop trying to make words somehow magically
> different just because they are in an e-mail.
>
> Putting this into perspective of the current thread, if I go to a
bar
> and tell the lady on the next bar stool I am a CEO or Astronaut or
> whatever, and she finds out the next morning I lied, no prosecutor
in
> the country would dream of prosecuting me for fraud.
>
> And if she asked to go home with me because I am an astronaut, but
> instead of accepting her offer I stood up on the bar and screamed to
> her entire collection of friends assembled: "The world would be a
> better place without you!", again, no one would dream of prosecuting
> me for fraud, harassment, or anything else.  Even if she went into
the
> toilet and hung herself.
>
> Nor should they.


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