Re: Searching a laptop not same as searching a backpack and a test of a new way of sending on IP

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Dave Wilson" <dave () wilson net>
Date: August 17, 2008 2:34:25 PM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Cc: ip <ip () v2 listbox com>
Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Searching a laptop not same as searching a  
backpack and a test of a new way of sending on IP

Interesting points. What about the idea that my computer contains
access to elements far beyond that particular computer (servers,
certificates, etc.). To use the ongoing analogy, it's as if when you
search my mobile home as I pass in to your country, the fact that I
have keys to other possessions -- my business, my house, my car --
you're claiming the right to search those as well...

(Note: I'm a big fan of Stewart Baker and I want to make clear that
I'm just exploring this in a friendly fashion...)

-dave

On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Stewart Baker  
<stewart.baker () gmail com> wrote:
> In my view, Peter's points aren't particularly persuasive:
>
> 1.  When customs authorities search books and papers at the border,
> they can and do make copies, which last every bit as long as
> electronic records from laptops (longer, if my experience with hard
> drive failure is anything to go by).
> 2. If you drive your travel trailer across the border with Canada,
> authorities on both sides of the border can search it thoroughly, even
> if it really is your only home, and without probable cause.  So even
> literal homes can be searched, not just the figurative home that Peter
> invents. (Also, really, how is a laptop more like a home than a
> trunkful of diaries, scrapbooks, photo albums, and financial and
> medical records being brought home after a few years?)
> 3.  Last time I looked, lawyers were among the most paperbound of
> professions, and they bring those papers across the border every day.
> Do they get a pass to bring anything they want into the country in
> their briefcases just because client information might be in there
> too?
>
> Stewart Baker
>
> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 7:53 PM, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote:
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Peter Swire [peter () peterswire net]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:44 PM
> > To: David Farber
> > Subject: [IP] Searching a laptop not same as searching a backpack
> >
> > Dave:
> >
> >     Here are some responses to Rob Atkinson's question about why
> > searching a laptop is different from traditional border searches:
> >
> >     "Note To DHS: Searching A Laptop Is Not The Same As Searching A
> > Backpack" -- http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/07/dhs-laptop-response/
> >
> > 1. Laptop searches last far longer. The backpack search is complete  
> > when
> > the traveler leaves the border. For a typical laptop, the  
> > government can
> > make a copy and then search every file at its leisure.
> >
> > 2. It's like searching your home. Our laptops contain family photos,
> > medical records, finances, personal diaries, and all the other  
> > detailed
> > records of our most personal lives. Having the government rummage  
> > through
> > all these files is like searching your home, and that requires a  
> > probable
> > cause warrant.
> >
> > 3. Confidential and privileged information. Many kinds of  
> > confidential
> > information are in laptops, including journalists' notes about an
> > investigative story, trade secrets and other key business  
> > information, and
> > many more. Lawyers' laptops contain attorney-client privileged  
> > information,
> > as reinforced by a recent case that says the privilege is lost once  
> > the
> > government sees a file during a search.
> >
> >     The post encourages readers to post additional differences at the
> > Homeland Security thread on this topic:
> > http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership/2008/08/answering-questions-on-border-laptop.html
> >
> >     Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > Prof. Peter P. Swire
> > C. William O'Neil Professor of Law
> > Moritz College of Law
> > The Ohio State University
> > Senior Fellow, Center for American Progress
> > (240) 994-4142, www.peterswire.net
> >
> > ==============================
> > > Their basic point remains the same  customs has checked people¹s  
> > > items at
> > > the
> > > border for 200 years, so they can check your laptop.
> >
> > It's not a bad point and Jayson Ahern's explanation sounds pretty
> > reasonable. Is there a decent rebuttal? Does anyone believe that  
> > Customs
> > shouldn't search briefcases and luggage?
> >
> > In response to your first post that started the earlier string on the
> > topic,
> > Dave posted my comment which said, in part,:
> >
> > > So, for those IPers who are aghast at the current situation, what  
> > > is the
> > > best
> > > argument for distinguishing a laptop from a briefcase or luggage  
> > > and the
> > > best
> > > argument that a laptop is so "personal" that a search of a laptop is
> > > similar to
> > > a body cavity search? (And is there is valid difference between a
> > > "business"
> > > laptop (more like a briefcase?) and a "personal" laptop
> > > (more like a body cavity?) and how would Customs be able to  
> > > distinguish
> > > between
> > > them without looking inside?)
> >
> >
> >
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