more on Yahoo, AOL, Goodmail and IP]

[Dave Farber <dave () farber net>]

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- -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [IP] Yahoo, AOL, Goodmail and IP
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:44:24 -0800
From: Cindy Cohn <cindy () eff org>
To: Russell Nelson <nelson () crynwr com>
CC: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>, "Danny O'Brien" <danny () eff org>,
   Ren Bucholz <Ren () eff org>, derek () eff org, Chris Palmer <chris () eff org>
References: <43EA6390.6080202 () farber net>
<17388.14324.307468.837082 () desk crynwr com>

I wouldn't be so sure.

I spent about several weeks last year trying to convince Microsoft
that it was not a good idea for it to force Moveon.org to sign up for
Bonded Sender.  After Moveon's messages started bouncing, and they
tried to get it addressed through the proper antispam channels, they
received, repeatedly, the response that Microsoft wasn't going to fix
it and that Moveon.org's only option if it wanted to be sure that its
messages got through to Microsoft email customers was to sign up with
Bonded Sender.

Ultimately because Moveon.org is famous, and they know me, and I know
Microsoft's lawyers, I was able to get them to back off.  Bonded
Sender is an especially bad idea for an organization that has
enemies.  Every time someone reports you as a spammer your bond gets
debited and they have grossly insufficient processes to investigate
and put the money back if you claim that it's politically motivated.

So yes, if AOL or Yahoo tried the same trick on Dave, I would likely
step in and help, and because Dave is famous and I know lawyers at
AOL and Yahoo too, it would likely be the case that the threat would
go away.

But is that what we want the 'net to become? If you're famous and you
have a lawyer friend who has lawyer friends, then you can get your
messages through? What about the next IP? The next Politech?  The
next Moveon.org (or Eagle Forum or NRA newsletter or whatever--I've
helped people from all across the political spectrum and will
continue to do so).

And how is Goodmail going to decide who has a nonprofit mailing
list?  Dave's not a registered nonprofit.  There are likely
thousands, if not millions of mailing lists like Dave's that I think
should be protected.  Is Goodmail going to keep a staff of people to
research each "nonprofit mailing list" that asks for free permanent
access?


Cindy

On Feb 9, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Russell Nelson wrote:

> Cindy is trolling you, Dave.  It's clearly in Goodmail Systems'
> interest to establish and protect their brand.  One way they can do
> that is by giving permanent free access to non-profit mailing list
> senders.  The more closely they can align their brand with "this is
> good mail", the more successful they will be.
>
> Trust me on this one; you'll never be asked to pay to send IP email.
> I'll publicly eat an entire 16oz fruitcake if I'm wrong.
>
> Dave Farber writes:
> > I would not pay. I woud tell IPers to get another isp djf
> >
> > From:        Cindy Cohn <cindy () eff org>
> >
> > You gonna pay? How much would it be per month for IP?
>
> -- 
> --my blog is at     blog.russnelson.com         | A computer  
> without Python is
> Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | like a CPU  
> without memory:
> 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241       | it runs, but you  
> can't do
> Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  |     Sheepdog          | anything useful  
> with it.

********************************************************
Cindy Cohn                              ---- Cindy () eff org
Legal Director                  ---- www.eff.org
Electronic Frontier Foundation
454 Shotwell Street
San Francisco, CA 94110
(415) 436-9333 x108
(415) 436-9993 (fax)



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