more on "United States of Shame"

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: jchobbs3 () bellsouth net
Date: September 3, 2005 8:36:53 PM EDT
To: dave () farber net, Ip Ip <ip () v2 listbox com>
Subject: Re: [IP] more on "United States of Shame"


Dave

Thanks for forwarding Norman's note....appears to be the thoughtful  
work of a somewhat non-partisan commentator.  Easy to pick apart  
"weird" comments from all sides....like a reported  Kennedy comment  
that God was punishing the Mississippi Governor or the weird "an  
atomic" bomb in the mix was not contemplated by the Director of  
Homeland Security!  Look at the history folks,big # 4 or 5 storms  
have been banging the gulf coast since way before "global warming"  
and large concentrations of populations on the coasts!

Admittedly,the underlying problems are truly horrific in an area the  
size of the UK and many of your post's correctly highlight  potential  
contributing factor "politics as usual" reality such as the $232M  
Alaska "bridge to no where" funding appropriation in the recent   
Congressional transportation bill vs alledged Corps of Engineer  
budget cuts in New Orleans as a classic example. We gotta find a  
better way to allocate  budget resources....current "bring home the  
bacon" for a bingo museum mentality has become too  
bizzare.....because recently neither political party appears  
interested in taxpayer "bang for the buck"

So,I have not been active on you IP site for many years,but as I  
recall from very early days,used to be mostly folks of science and  
technology. Accordingly,I am somewhat dismayed to see people casting  
specific pin point blame without emperical evidence or certainty!   
[ this is indicative of the general hostility the previous two  
administrations have caused in the USA the blues hated one president  
and the reds the other. djf] Yea,so the President did not tear up  
like perhaps Bill Clinton might have during a speech....is that proof  
positive that he does not care about the plight of the homeless poor  
people in NO??

This is a big country with complex governmental structures and  
probably way too much bureaucracy....even the much debated  
requirement that New Orleans Police department officers must reside  
in the city limits probably had an impact.  However, as Norman  
implies below,viewed as comparative case studies,the Mississippi  
governor appears to have better anticipated the scope of the  
challenges than counterparts to the west next door.  Admittedly,the  
subsequent  flooding in NO makea an absolute  comparision somewhat  
bogus.

For the record it would be interesting to know, how many previous  
administrations of either party have been declared or designated  
geographical disaster areas before the disaster?

Not trying to start a fight here,let's just get the folks rescued and  
safe before tossing the political grenades in our red state vs blue  
state battles!  At the end of the day,what counts is learning from  
the mis-judgements of all stakeholders  and never repeating the same  
mistakes again.

Jim




> From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
> Date: 2005/09/03 Sat PM 05:53:26 EDT
> To: Ip Ip <ip () v2 listbox com>
> Subject: [IP] more on   "United States of Shame"
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Norman MacLeod <gaelwolf () waypt com>
> Date: September 3, 2005 5:41:58 PM EDT
> To: dave () farber net
> Subject: RE: [IP] "United States of Shame"
>
>
>
> Certainly an interesting read.  Once again, it's all the fault of the
> Bush
> administration.
>
> Let's see...1953...more than 1,800 Dutch citizens die when a massive
> storm
> hits The Netherlands.  They respond by completing the Deltawerk in
> about ten
> years.  Do we build a levee system around New Orleans that will
> protect the
> city against a Category 5 hurricane?  We didn't then, and 52 years
> later the
> answer remains no.
>
> We know the technology that would have prevented a substantial
> portion of
> this disaster existed more than 50 years ago.  After all, a nation  
> only
> eight years out of being completely trashed by WWII was able to use
> it to
> protect its citizens.  Nine successive U.S. administrations and  
> multiple
> Congresses dominated by both of our major parties at one time or  
> another
> failed to come up with a similar project as a priority in the  
> wealthiest
> nation in the world.
>
> Where were the primary leadership lapses that exacerbated the scope
> of the
> disaster in New Orleans?  In New Orleans and Baton Rouge.
>
> If a Category 5 hurricane has its sights on your city, and you know
> that it
> will take three days to accomplish a reasonably complete evacuation
> of your
> citizenry, should you wait until the morning before that hurricane
> hits to
> get the mandatory evacuation under way?  Probably not...but that's  
> what
> happened in New Orleans.  The city also now has a fleet of ruined  
> school
> buses sitting in their parking lots.  Why were they not used in
> evacuating
> the city?  They could have been used to get thousands out of harm's
> way, and
> they would still be on the road, helping accomplish the needed relief
> missions.
>
> When you are the governor, and the governors of the two other  
> states the
> hurricane are going to hit are federalizing their National Guard
> resources,
> why do you wait for the President to call you and urge you to do  
> what it
> takes to allow the federal government to start prioritizing  
> resources in
> your direction?  I don't know whether Governor Blanco will ever
> provide us
> with an adequate answer for that one.
>
> Once it's apparent that you need every resource at hand to help get
> the rest
> of a city's people out of the catastrophe zone, should you tell the  
> Red
> Cross that they can't put resources into your city?  Up to last
> night, at
> least, the Red Cross was being held out of New Orleans.  Certainly  
> they
> should not be setting up shelters in New Orleans itself, but they
> should be
> allowed in to help coordinate the evacuation.
>
> The federal government's disaster response responsibilities generally
> ramp
> up after the initial local and state responses are overtaken by
> events.  The
> federal government's responsibility is to sustain the recovery
> operations
> over the long haul.
>
> One of the things that bothers me the most is that the same
> challenges that
> New Orleans faced in evacuating the city on this occasion happened
> only a
> year ago in the run-up to Hurricane Ivan.  Fortunately, Ivan spared
> the city
> a serious blow.  Katrina was not as kind.  How come the leadership in
> New
> Orleans and Baton Rouge didn't fix the problems after the preview
> they had
> last year?
>
> There was serious destruction in Mississippi and Alabama.  That  
> both of
> those states are coping better than Louisiana points to the
> impression that
> there are some serious leadership problems in Louisiana, and that you
> can't
> blame it all on the administration in Washington.
>
>      Norman
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> You are subscribed as jim () 4mobility com
> To manage your subscription, go to
>   http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip
>
> Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting- 
> people/




-------------------------------------
You are subscribed as lists-ip () insecure org
To manage your subscription, go to
 http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip

Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/