more on Katrina, view from afar (Figaro) (fwd)

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Marc <marcaniballi () hotmail com>
Date: September 20, 2005 7:55:58 AM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Katrina, view from afar (Figaro) (fwd)


Let's also not forget that the primary cause of the deaths in France  
during
the 2003 heat wave were dehydration and dehydration related illness. Air
conditioning is not a very common appliance in France, the climate  
does not
really warrant it (coastal temperate zones aside, let's remember that
Marseille (the most southern major center in France) is the same  
latitude as
Toronto! The "heat wave" would have been considered temperate by Texan
standards.

Reports have shown that the majority of deaths occurred in elderly  
retirees
who lived alone and had no support network. This brought about a lot of
questions about how the elderly are sometimes "abandoned" by their  
families
and how to better handle the situation in the future. The most  
notable thing
to come out of this was that the general public is now aware that you  
can
die of dehydration without ever feeling "thirsty," and that the  
elderly are
especially at risk due to the higher probability of a dysfunctional  
internal
thermostat. In effect, the disaster could largely have been averted  
had the
victims simply drank a bottle of water a day, whether they were  
thirsty or
not.

Now while the tragedy is all the more poignant for the simplicity of its
solution - I do not see how a strong industrial complex would have  
saved the
day. Mr. Todd did not blame the Katrina disaster on America (or Bush, or
neo-cons, etc.) - he (IMHO) simply pointed out that a country with a  
strong
industrial complex (such as post-war America) would have been better
prepared to weather the crisis, and manage its aftermath. Whether he is
correct or not is immaterial - it seems to be a well thought out opinion
that offers a different perspective on the larger situation and may
hopefully get a few creative minds thinking along different lines and
possibly coming up with some innovative solutions to America's troubles.
Where's the harm in that?

Marc

-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 7:12 PM
To: Ip Ip
Subject: [IP] more on Katrina, view from afar (Figaro) (fwd)



Begin forwarded message:

From: Rahul Tongia <tongia () andrew cmu edu>
Date: September 19, 2005 6:57:00 PM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] more on Katrina, view from afar (Figaro) (fwd)


Dave,

I would tend to agree with <chodge5 () utk edu> that no matter how
advanced a society is, it can face failures.  However, two reactions:

1) The US was dealing with a "point-source" problem, where more
precise effort would have been important, while in Europe, you had
tens of millions of homes to "protect."  They need different
thinking, planning, and intervention.  Not all natural disasters are
the same.
2) It is possible to admit that BOTH screwed up.  Given humankind's
general (and well-documented) overemphasis on acute instead of
chronic problems (e.g., a plane crash instead of poor kids starving,
which kills many, many more), NOLA stands out as a failure even when
there was extensive modeling and recognition of the threat.  In
contrast, while there was the knowledge that many people were at risk
in Europe, it was not known who, where, and exactly when.  A somewhat
different problem (but with commonalities).

Rahul

--On Monday, September 19, 2005 6:35 PM -0400 David Farber
<dave () farber net> wrote:



> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: chodge5 () utk edu
> Date: September 19, 2005 6:17:18 PM EDT
> To: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>
> Subject: [IP] more on Katrina, view from afar (Figaro) (fwd)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > And, BTW, much less than the more than 35,000 killed by a heat wave
> > in Europe two summers ago.
> >
> > You recall the debate that set off about European heartlessness,
> > racism and discrimination? No, neither do I.
>
>
> IPers might be interested in Philip Klinkner's recent post at PolySigh
> http://polysigh.blogspot.com/2005/09/overstating-katrina.html
> I think Klinkner is at Hamilton College. The post has a number of very
> good links, but the passage I thought worth noting was:
>
> Compare the Katrina tragedy to the heatwave that struck Western
> Europe in
> the summer of 2003. We still don't know the death toll from
> Katrina, but
> most indications are that the early prediction of 10,000 plus
> deaths  were
> wildly off the mark and the actual toll will be less than half of
> that.
> In
> contrast, the 2003 heatwave led to the deaths of 35,000 Europeans. In
> France there were nearly 15,000 dead and in Paris alone, 1854 people
> perished. Thus, looking only at deaths, the heatwaves were a much
> great
> disaster for Europe than Katrina is likely to be for the U.S.
>
> And like the Bush administration, the French government was
> criticized
> for
> its laggard response to the calamity--including the fact that the
> prime
> minister and health minister were away on vacation when the disaster
> struck. According to the Economist, the health minister was criticized
> because (shades of President Bush strumming his guitar in Crawford):
>
> His first reaction had been a television interview showing him, in a
> T-shirt in the garden of his holiday home in the Var, arguing,
> unworried,
> that all was under control.
>
> Nor, like Katrina, was this disaster unforseen. One Paris doctor
> said at
> the time:
>
> Last summer the situation was catastrophic and this year it is
> worse; we
> were not at all prepared. The hospital system is failing.
>
> Finally, most of those that died were from the most vulnerable
> segments
> of
> European society, the elderly, particularly those who were poor
> and  lived
> alone. This is despite the fact that for several generations, most
> European nations have constructed social safety nets to provide for
> the
> care and well-being of their citizens, especially the elderly.
>
> What's the upshot of all of this? The lesson of Katrina and the
> European
> heatwave is that natural disasters can have a devastating impact on
> even
> the most advanced and wealthy nations, and that this impact has
> little or
> nothing to do with the governing structure, ruling party, or political
> culture of those nations. It is no more accurate to claim that the
> heatwave deaths in France are the result of unworkable welfare
> state or
> the indifference of morally lax society, than it is to claim that the
> Katrina victims are the result of conservative social policy,
> racism, or
> free market economics.
>
>
>
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