Re: Dave, why do the IP consider recognit ion of cr eationism in afewschool districts so

["David Farber" <dave () farber net>]

_______________ Forward Header _______________
Subject:        Re: [IP] Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of cr eationism in afewschool districts so
Author: Frank Nickerson <frankhawkin () yahoo com>
Date:           13th February 2005 3:19:30 pm

Dave,

I just joined this list of yours and don't know the protocol for responding.  

My two cents: Until recent years I thought the argument of creationism in science classes was resolved.  I am appalled 
that a state school board would endorse creationism in science class.  I thought that debate was decided years ago.  If 
that debate can be reopened and reversed in Kansas why couldn't it happen elsewhere?  Kansas likely has poor and middle 
class Americans who have crummy math and science scores as other states do.  The theory of evolution is fundamental in 
science and I don't want similar reversals in decisions made in other states where it would further effect the crummy 
math & science scores.

The problem with the other issues (global warming, genocide, war, AIDS) is that they take money to resolve once a 
debate is settled.  This issue however is just a debate with no other attached spending initiatives.  Most school 
textbooks are published for use nationwide and publishers only become profitable by publishing for a nationwide 
audience.   However, if the debate in Kansas, for example, spreads to a state like Texas where a large percentage of 
the nation's young students live, many textbook publishers will be pressured to include creationism in the science 
texts they market for nation-wide use.  While some could see this as a local state issue, Kansas thus could be the 
proverbial hole in the dike that could flood the country and further suppress our country's math and science scores.  
It's much cheaper to plug dikes rather than to do full-fledged fixes.  That's why I care about the policy of a school 
board in Kansas.  

I think the Reverend makes a good point that we need to understand why people care so much about what is taught.  
Otherwise those in favor of teaching only the theory of evolution in science class could find themselves trying to plug 
holes across the country.

-Frank Nickerson


> ------------Original Message------------
> From: "David Farber" <dave () farber net>
> To: ip () v2 listbox com
> Date: Sat, Feb-12-2005 7:27 PM
> Subject: [IP] Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of cr eationism in a fewschool districts so
>
>
>
> _______________ Forward Header _______________
> Subject:      Dave, why do the IP consider recognition of creationism in a 
> fewschool districts so
> Author:       "Munro, Neil" <NMunro () nationaljournal com>
> Date:         12th February 2005 5:19:59 pm
>
>  
> much more offensive than the crummy math & science scores among so many 
> poor and middle-class Americans? Or the declining number of Americans 
> going into the sciences and engineering? Or, more broadly, why care 
> about Kansas schools when there are so many greater horrors, such as  
> global warming, genocide in Sudan, President Bush, war, AIDS, etc.  
>  
> I'm not defending or attacking creationism, just trying to find out why 
> your folks care so much about the policy of a school board in Kansas. 
>  
> Neil 
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-ip () v2 listbox com on behalf of n
> Sent: Sat 2/12/2005 11:16 AM
> To: ip () v2 listbox com
> Subject: [IP] Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolu tion 
> theory into theclassroom
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq () quarterman org>
> To: <dave () farber net>
> Cc: "John S. Quarterman" <jsq () quarterman org>; <ip () v2 listbox com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolu tion 
> theory
> into theclassroom
>
>
> > > _______________ Forward Header _______________
> > > Subject: Re: Creationists take their challenge to evolution theory 
> into
> > > theclassroom
> > > Author: David Byrden <iplist () byrden com>
> > > Date: 12th February 2005 1:26:23 pm
> >
> > > ...
> >
> > > I think my approach should be used to deflate the Creationists such 
> as
> > > Mr. Harris, who said:
> > >
> > >  >> "There are creation myths on both sides. Which one do you 
> teach?"
> > > Mr. Harris is wrong; there are more than two sides. Every religion 
> has a
> > > different creation myth.
> >
> > And Christianity has at least two: Adam and Eve created 
> simultaneously vs.
> > Eve created out of Adam's side; they're both in Genesis 1.  This is
> > well known to every serious student of religion, or, for that matter,
> > to anyone who simply reads that book.
> >
> > > If the Creationists force Creation to be taught in
> > > schools, the schools should teach every single creation myth from
> > > cultures all around the world. This would leave no time for any 
> science
> > > in science class - thus making a point - and would undermine the
> > > students'
> > > unthinking acceptance of Christianity.
> >
> > Or at least undermine their unthinking acceptance of some particular
> > sect's interpretation of Genesis as representing Christianity.  After 
> all,
> > when did Bishop Ussher's dating of Creation to 4004 BC
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher
> >
> > become more important than the Sermon on the Mount or the parable
> > of the Good Samaritan?
> >
> > David has said what I haven't seen many people say: the response that
> > will succeed to a creationist attack on evolution is not to circle 
> the
> > wagons around evolution or even around science.  It is to 
> counterattack
> > against the creationists' version of religion and Christianity.
> >
> > This isn't something that many of us particularly want to do;
> > science isn't about attacking religion; it is about science.
> > However, this isn't science; it is politics.  What creationists
> > believe and teach in their own homes and churches is their affair.
> > But when they interject their dogma into public school systems as 
> fact,
> > they expose it for critical examination, not to mention ridicule.
> >
> > > David
> >
> > -jsq
>
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