more on what's being printed in Saudi Arabia (to put itmildly an other perspective djf)

[David Farber <farber () tmail com>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Bosley_J <Bosley_J () bls gov>
To: 'Ted Kircher' <tkircher () earthlink net>
CC: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>
Subject: **SPAM** RE: [IP] what's being printed in Saudi Arabia (to put 
itmildly an other perspective djf)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:54:56 -0500

Can't disagree with anything significant here, Ted. It's unfortunate 
that
"democracies" don't always put the best people in charge, that's for
sure--nor follow wise policies. Thanks for thinking--I wish more 
people
would do even that! <g> (Of course Dave does his best to give IPers the 
raw
material for effective thought, for which we are all thankful!)

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Kircher [mailto:tkircher () earthlink net]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:38 AM
To: Bosley_J
Cc: Dave Farber
Subject: Re: [IP] what's being printed in Saudi Arabia (to put 
itmildly
another perspective djf)


John,

Thank you for your response, and I personally have no problem with the
concept of the Jewish state, Israel.  I need to add, however, while 
the
initial - and to me understandable,
reaction by the Arab countries when Israel was founded after WW2 (to a 
large
extent because of the Allies inexcusable 'ignorance' regarding the
Holocaust) that they (Arabs)
wanted to 'drive the Israel' into the sea', that is no longer a viable
issue.  On the other hand, there is now the more likely situation that
Israel via its expanding settlements wants to
drive the Palestinians out of "Palestine", and this has been
proposed/supported by members in the Congress such as the former 
Majority
leader in the House, Dick Armey.

As to your statement, "I think it important to keep a focus on both 
the
Israeli government and the US government as the sources of problems 
here,
though--not on the people of either country,"
since these are two countries that are supposedly the current models 
of
democracy, there is no a real excuse for saying the government is not
accurately expressing the 'will of its people'.  For
example, the Democrats have been 'cowed down' (supposedly the 'loyal
opposition') even though Dick Cheney said on Meet the Press yesterday 
the
anti-war movement in the US is meaningless
as he knows that 'once the bullets fly' anybody against the war will 
be
'against our sons and daughters putting their lives on the line for the 
US',
hence will really be unpatriotic - and I feel certain
their leaders will come under much closer scrutiny by Ashcroft.

As to Rep Moran, I don't know his background regarding the state of 
Israel
(my views above), but my 'gut feel' is that Israel has far too much
influence on the US foreign policy - especially with a
Republican administration.

Ted
----- Original Message -----

From: Bosley_J <mailto:Bosley_J () bls gov>
To: 'Ted Kircher' <mailto:tkircher () earthlink net>  ; Dave Farber
<mailto:dave () farber net>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: [IP] what's being printed in Saudi Arabia (to put 
itmildly
another perspective djf)

Dave, Ted--
Ted, "funny" was Kennedy's term, not mine. I agree with you (and Jim 
K.)
that while some of the shots are a bit wild--the "Uncle Ben-Uncle Sam"
comparison can only be stretched so far, for example, as a 
metaphor--there's
more than a grain of sense in what's said about the role of Israel's
government in the whole picture. I think it important to keep a focus 
on
both the Israeli government and the US government as the sources of 
problems
here, though--not on the people of either country. While I believe 
that
Moran got beat up more than he deserved, he did not in my opinion make 
that
distinction clearly enough. He has also been known to show more than a 
touch
of hostility toward Americans who support the concept of the Jewish
state--sometimes with a lot of zeal, to be sure.
Best,
John
-- Dave

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