more on query on eliminating pork piling up on war funding bill - QUESTION

[Dave Farber <dave () farber net>]

------ Forwarded Message
From: Herb Lin <HLin () nas edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:19:25 -0400
To: dave () farber net
Cc: tongia () andrew cmu edu
Subject: Re: [IP] query on eliminating pork piling up on war funding bill -
QUESTION

The House has a rule that amendments to legislation must be "germane."  To
the
best of my knowledge, the Senate has no such rule.  Conferences, where House
and
Senate versions are reconciled, also have no such rules.

Herb Lin
(former Congressional staff member)

==

From
http://www.house.gov/rules/98-426.htm

The Germaneness Requirement

In addition to such general restrictions, clause 7 of House Rule XVI also
requires that each amendment must be germane to the text it would amend.
This is
a reasonable and simple principle, but one that can be difficult to apply in
practice.

Volumes 10 and 11 of Deschler's Precedents of the House of Representatives
devote almost 2,000 pages to the germaneness rule and its application. To be
germane, it is not sufficient that the amendment be relevant to the bill the
House is considering or even to the section or title of the bill that the
amendment would change. It is quite possible for an amendment to be relevant
without satisfying the more technical standards of germaneness.

In the commentary that follows the text of the germaneness rule in the House
Rules and Manual, the House parliamentarian identifies three tests of
germaneness: subject matter, fundamental purpose, and committee
jurisdiction. To
be germane: (1) "an amendment must relate to the subject matter under
consideration;" (2) "the fundamental purpose of an amendment must be germane
to
the fundamental purpose of the bill;" and (3) "an amendment when considered
as a
whole should be within the jurisdiction of the committee reporting the
bill."

None of these tests is always conclusive, nor is one of them necessarily
more
controlling than the others. Furthermore, an amendment may satisfy all three
of
these tests and still not be germane. To help explain this possibility, the
parliamentarian also elaborates several principles of germaneness, including
the
following: (1) "one individual proposition may not be amended by another
individual proposition even though the two belong to the same class;" and
(2) "a
specific subject may not be amended by a provision general in nature, even
when
of the class of the specific subject; but (3) "a general subject may be
amended
by specific propositions of the same class."

Members frequently consult with the House parliamentarian before offering
their
amendments to be certain that the amendments are in order.






Dave Farber <dave () farber net> on 04/09/2003 03:28:38 AM

Please respond to dave () farber net

To:   ip <ip () v2 listbox com>
cc:    (bcc: Herb Lin/NationalAcademies)
Subject:  [IP] query on eliminating  pork piling up on war   funding bill -
      QUESTION




------ Forwarded Message
From: Rahul Tongia <tongia () andrew cmu edu>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 22:17:02 -0400
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] pork piling up on war funding bill - QUESTION

Dave,

I don't know if you encourage, allow, or even tolerate questions posted to
the IP list, but I have a burning question about legislation, and I am not
skilled enough to answer.

*Can the system be modified to disallow unrelated amendments/riders from
becoming attached?*  The key is *unrelated*.

Not only were there the riders you posted about, but people remember the
stealth cover given to Eli Lily, recently.

While some people argue that these make efficiency or procedural sense, I
would counter that the minimal benefit is undone by the passage of bills
that otherwise would not stand on their own.

Can anyone enlighten me on this?  Given that the courts have struck down
line-item vetoes, which congress allowed on recognition of their own fiscal
indiscipline, is there a better answer than "Separate Enrollment" or
"Expedited Rescission?"

Thanks,

Rahul Tongia
 tongia () cmu edu


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