Interesting People mailing list archives
IP: Re: "We don't have the raw talent we need to be on the cutting edge"
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:05:29 -0400
I would add that the .COM mania created a lost generation in the US graduate school Many who might have gone on for further studies opted to give the Valley (and equivs) a try. Fail or succeed they will not be back . djf
From: "Jonathan S. Shapiro" <shap () eros-os org> To: <farber () cis upenn edu>, <ip-sub-1 () majordomo pobox com> Subject: Re: "We don't have the raw talent we need to be on the cutting edge" Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:19:31 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 [Definitely for IP] Just one comment to add to the fray: While the ageism issue is real, it's worth asking where all of the young CS graduates are going, and why HP and others aren't able to hire them. Wherever the younger U.S. candidates are, they aren't in school. Last year at Hopkins, our college graduates with a CS degree compared a $17,000 graduate stipend and a Ph.D. with uncertain economic value to a $80,000 or higher salary in industry. Only one opted for graduate school. Today, it isn't at all clear that continuing for an M.S. or Ph.D. degree in cS will raise their salary over the long term. More and more, I find them opting to combine CS undergrad degrees with graduate degrees in law or business. Many of our graduates, however, are going to startups or smaller companies. The rest seem to be going to firms like Anderson Consulting. These students figure, correctly, that given the demand for skilled labor in the industry, the time to take risks is in the first years of their career, when they have no family to support. In recent years, startups have paid salaries comparable to established companies, so there isn't really any risk in joining one. Sometimes the salaries are actually higher, because startups are clearer about the importance of specialized expertise and are less concerned about salary equity than large companies. All things considered, it's no wonder HP (and others) cannot hire these students. The U.S. students are simply getting better offers elsewhere, at places where they have more impact. And the foreign labor is cheaper. In the end, however, the customer pays for the labor regardless.Those Anderson types basically get paid to clean up up after less skilled talent... Jonathan S. Shapiro Assistant Professor, Department of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University
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- IP: Re: "We don't have the raw talent we need to be on the cutting edge" David Farber (Jul 23)