Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation
From: bkfsec <bkfsec () sdf lonestar org>
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:21:13 -0400
Micheal Espinola Jr wrote:
persuasion by possible threat of action/retaliation is stillpersuasion.
Yeah yeah yeah... and a sword is just a knife.Technically, you're correct -- coercion is a form of persuasion. However, coercion is not all forms of persuasion, and that is the distinction that Steve was trying to make. Coercion is to persuasion as a sword is to a knife.
Is one a subset of the other? Sort of...Are they used for the same thing? Not at all... unless you cut butter with a sword, that is.
Personally, I buy the argument that we definately do make choices in all regards... there's never not a choice. However, as most general rules go, when applied to reality your results may vary.You aren't forced to do it. Children world-wide are taught right from wrong under this edict.
Coercion forces someone's hand. Let's take an example...Someone sees you walking somewhere (I don't know.. to the store, perhaps...) and you're on the same side of the street that they're on. Something about you offends them and one of two scenarios happen:
1. The offended person says "Walk on the other side of the street."2. The offended person either brandishes a gun in your face and says "Get on the other side of the street or you're dead!" or threatens to call the police on you.
In which scenario are you more likely to cross the street?I don't know about you, but if someone just tells me to do something, I'm not terribly inclined to do it. Why be put out of my way for the exclusive gain of a stranger? Why should my rights be impinged upon because of someone else's oddness?
However, in the second example, I'd be more inclined to cross the street for the simple fact that crossing the street causes me less grief than being shot or dealing with someone making false accusations.
Coercion changes the nature of your choices. All choices are not equal. Any argument that they are, frankly, disregards reality.
Not at all. If Lynn is subjected to criminal prosecution, the gunpoint analogy will be entirely valid.Your gun violence comparison is a bit over the top.
-Barry _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Current thread:
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation, (continued)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Bart . Lansing (Aug 01)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Jason Coombs (Aug 01)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation David Chastain (Aug 02)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Thierry Zoller (Aug 03)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Jason Coombs (Aug 01)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Technica Forensis (Aug 01)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Jason Coombs (Aug 01)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Valdis . Kletnieks (Aug 01)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Michael Holstein (Aug 02)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Michael Holstein (Aug 02)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation bkfsec (Aug 02)
- Re: Cisco IOS Shellcode Presentation Bart . Lansing (Aug 01)