Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Professional Groups
From: Matt Burnett <marukka () mac com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:17:16 -0600
I used to work for a public high school as a perenment consultant (sys/net admin), and the technicians/helpdesk personel were unionized. I don¹t really think it helped at all. I watched people abuse the system on a consitent basis by playing video games when work should have been done. When large budget cuts came this fiscal year they had to get rid of someone, although they did want to get rid of the people abusing the system, there was nothing they could do. So I ended up being let go, even though my performance was good. Although I do like the idea of getting rid of MCSEs who only have expierence in a class room, I don¹t think unions would help get rid of them, I personally think it would only make things even worse. On 1/12/04 3:33 PM, "Bart.Lansing () kohls com" <Bart.Lansing () kohls com> wrote:
Daniel... This is off-topic as well...and probably should not even be here...but... As a former Teamster who later moved into the systems world..."horse hockey". Unions have not stopped the flood of jobs overseas, do not have the right to impose product decisions or have the authority to dictate "Oh, we don't like that we have to fix what you bought...we demand extra money for that above and beyond our normal paychecks..." (after all...it's part of your job), would put you under far more stringent rules of behavior than you have experience with (apparently), and...I'm very sorry you feel "exploited"...perhaps you should go to work "for" the Teamsters...you'd make a fine rabble-rousing organizer :) Sadly, it's a case of rhetoric and no supporting fact that you've made though. And finally, you just had to close with: "If we are going to change our industry so that we can succeed atour jobs, we need a union. Period. "...Kindly speak for yourself...I'm succeeding quite nicely in my job, thank you...and I certainly don't need a union to "help" me with that. I feel sorry that you feel you can't succeed without one....but I'm betting you are in a very very small minority who believe that they either are not succeeding...or need a union to make that happen. full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com wrote on 01/12/2004 02:31:03 PM:It's time we as a professional group start talking and walking like adults (at least more than in the past), I think. Just playing with computers is fine, but not enough.Agreed. And believe me, I have spent many an hour trying to figure outhow to approach the problem. Unfortunately, every solution I can come up with involves educating the masses . . . many of whom don't want to be confused with facts . . . ;>This is off topic but I couldn't help myself. What we need is a union. Why? Well right now, management generally buys the software that has the cutest infobabes, the best promise, or safe branding (Microsoft). If we had a union that negotiated a contract that paid us extra for fixing software failures or broken installs, so that the bottom line got hurt by the crap these people sell, it would take about 5 minutes for the priorities to change in purchasing decisions and for SLAs and tech support to be ratcheted up where they belong. Speaking as a US citizen, if we were Teamsters and honored their picket lines think of the leverage we would have. Scab truck drivers are available, but imagine the chaos of scab sys admins or firewall administrators? And of course when the Teamsters honor our picket lines, that wouldn't hurt a bit. Be nice to keep our jobs from going to third world countries where tech professionals are even more exploited than here. But of course, all my technical professional colleagues will pooh-pooh the idea of a union. They always do. Think about this, a union for us could be like the bar associatio for lawyers or the AMA for doctors. We could impose stringent professional abilities, certifications, and requirements to ensure we are a professional, capable body of people. We could institute apprenticeships so we have a supply of people who are more than paper MCSEs or CCNAs. I am very fortunate that I work in an enlightened company that pays more than lip service to standards and security. Management totally backs us up on secure and safe computing. No IM, no HTML mail, no user installed software. A budget for security and training. It is wonderfule. It is also the first employer in my 15 years of IT experience that follows through on these things. But I remember the pain and anguish from before. If we are going to change our industry so that we can succeed at our jobs, we need a union. Period. Dan Sichel, Network Engineer Ponderosa Telephone Company (559) 868-6367 _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.htmlCONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This is a transmission from Kohl's Department Stores, Inc. and may contain information which is confidential and proprietary. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying or distribution or use of the contents of this message is expressly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately at 262-703-7000. CAUTION: Internet and e-mail communications are Kohl's property and Kohl's reserves the right to retrieve and read any message created, sent and received. Kohl's reserves the right to monitor messages by authorized Kohl's Associates at any time without any further consent. _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
"The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) is the most dangerous organization in the world." Bill O'Reilly on Fox News during the "No Spin Zone" on January 10th 2004 _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Professional Groups Daniel Sichel (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Matt Burnett (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Ron DuFresne (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Gwendolynn ferch Elydyr (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Bart . Lansing (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Ka (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Lan Guy (Jan 13)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Professional Groups Matt Burnett (Jan 12)
- RE: Professional Groups Schmehl, Paul L (Jan 12)
- RE: Professional Groups Kenton Smith (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups bart2k (Jan 13)
- Re: Professional Groups Ron DuFresne (Jan 13)
- RE: Professional Groups Richard Gadsden (Jan 13)
- RE: Professional Groups Funk Jr, Joseph C. (Jan 13)
- Re: Professional Groups Ka (Jan 13)
- RE: Professional Groups James . Cupps (Jan 13)
- Re: Professional Groups Ka (Jan 13)
- Re: Professional Groups Matt Burnett (Jan 12)