Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Is Marty Lying?
From: pdt () jackhammer org
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:37:25 -0500 (CDT)
So I hate to bring this up but this comment is borderline on the idiotic side... A quick google search on the meaning of IDS would have explained to you what IDS means. Incase that isn't something you are versed in I have done the hard work for you: http://www.sans.org/resources/idfaq/what_is_id.php And if for some reason were google to go away and you once again had to think and figure out what things meant by building on the meanings you could take a quick trip out to dictionary.com or grep a dead tree and figure out the meaning. intrusion: n 2: entrance by force or without permission or welcome detection: n 1: the perception that something has occurred or some state exists system: n 1: a group of independent but interrelated elements comprising a unified whole So... lets put those together shall we? The descriptions above would make me think that IDS means a group of detection mechanisms that can sniff out intruders. For someone to be an intruder they have to take action that would intrude. So yes, the damage has been done. The best analogy I have heard is echoed by a post that just showed up in my inbox. It doesn't seem very useless to have security cameras pointing at bank vaults and keeping an eye on priceless art and on the entry points and exit points leading to those vaults and national treasures. That way we can go back later and say ok, how did they get the money and who the h$ll was it? I don't know about you but I am glad those cameras don't have guns mounted on them to go ahead and shoot anybody trying to steal the money. What happens if they get confused and kill some poor booger just trying to go to his safety deposit box? Granted my example wouldnt make me very sad, but there are some people that I dont want to see go out the way of the dodo. Anyhow, long story short IPS != IDS and booger == CISSP == further drives the point home that certs are useless.
"Detect intrusions" - if you can set an IDS signature for something, then you shouldn't be vulnerable to it. So the functionality of IDS is to tell you when you've been compromised by six-month old public vulnerabilities that dvdman has finally gotten his hands on an exploit for, that you never bothered to patch for? Useless. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Whitehat by day, booger at night - I'm the security snot." - CISSP / CCNA / A+ Certified - www.unixclan.net/~booger/ - ----------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Gregory A. Gilliss wrote:Peter: Intrusion Detection systems are designed to detect intrusions. Period. No one AFAIK has yet developed the Intrusion Prediction system. If you have an alpha version lying around, pls respond with a link. I'm sure that you will quickly be deluged with download requests =;^) Reactive is the nature of the beast, a point that has been rehashed many many times here and elsewhere. No finite state machine can anticipate or detect the virus that I am right now writing, unless I foolishly make part of the binary match an existing sig. there will *always* be a latency between action and response. One of the things that people on this list do is attempt to assist each other in minimizing that latency. Now, if we could only get some of the vendors onboard >-) G On or about 2003.09.22 21:23:52 +0000, Peter Busser (peter () trusteddebian org) said:Hi!3) Why the fuck do people still thing signature-based IDS isworthwhile?Give us another solution. Are you saying anomoly based idssignatures are_worthwhile_?The problem with IDS systems is the same problem that currentlyavailablevirus scanners have: They work reactive and not proactive. Making machines harder to break into and improve ways to enforce asecuritypolicy (e.g. by using Mandatory Access Control (MAC)) would be one waytoproactively deal with security.-- Gregory A. Gilliss, CISSP Telephone: 1 650 872 2420 Computer Engineering E-mail: greg () gilliss com Computer Security ICQ: 123710561 Software Development WWW: http://www.gilliss.com/greg/ PGP Key fingerprint 2F 0B 70 AE 5F 8E 71 7A 2D 86 52 BA B7 83 D9 B4 14 0E 8C A3 _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
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Current thread:
- Re: Is Marty Lying?, (continued)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? security snot (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? james (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? Blue Boar (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? security snot (Sep 23)
- Please don't feed the troll (was: Re: Is Marty Lying?) Cael Abal (Sep 23)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? security snot (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? Peter Busser (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? Gregory A. Gilliss (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? security snot (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? pdt (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? Florin Andrei (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? Justin (Sep 23)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? Paul Schmehl (Sep 22)
- Re: Is Marty Lying? Valdis . Kletnieks (Sep 22)
- The usefullness of IDSes (Was: Re: Is Marty Lying?) Peter Busser (Sep 23)
- RE: The usefullness of IDSes (Was: Re: Is Marty Lying?) Philippe Bogaerts (Sep 23)
- RE: The usefullness of IDSes (Was: Re: Is Marty Lying?) Cedric Blancher (Sep 23)