Full Disclosure mailing list archives
RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm
From: "JT" <ptourvi1 () twcny rr com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:07:45 -0400
I don't quite understand here. A user generally has WAY more options/ways to make a mistake interacting with Zone Alarm vs say, a Linksys firewall. Yes, the user will not know how to flash it, and will not stay up to date with any updates, but that's our job anyways. IMHO any auto update feature is a problem waiting to happen, which leads you back to having to do/provide the update yourself anyways. I understand not all PFWs work like ZA though too, but that is the PFW of choice among end users it seems. Does anyone have any experience using the Linksys WITH Zone Alarm, does it provide any features that either product on their own do not? Thanks for any info. JT -----Original Message----- From: full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com [mailto:full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com] On Behalf Of Schmehl, Paul L Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:29 PM To: Robert J. Liebsch Cc: full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm If you understand security, using Outlook/Exchange is not dangerous. If it makes you feel better, I can respond from my RedHat box or my OpenBSD box or my FreeBSD box. Frankly, I don't really give a rats a$$. I use what's handy at the time. They're just tools, and I'm not religious about them. I'm already on record as saying that I *prefer* a DSL router or "true" firewall. I'm just trying to make the point that *for some people* PFWs are better, because they're simple to use and understand and they're certainly better than nothing, which is what they'll have if you try to get them to use more sophisticated tools. Hell, some of our users still struggle trying to figure out how a mouse works. I just tell them, don't ask me to master physics and I won't ask you to master computers. They're just tools to do work. Paul Schmehl (pauls () utdallas edu) Adjunct Information Security Officer The University of Texas at Dallas AVIEN Founding Member http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/ -----Original Message----- From: Robert J. Liebsch [mailto:rliebsch () stoneyamashita com] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:57 PM To: Schmehl, Paul L Cc: full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm worse than HTML email... Exchange *eep* I have mixed emotions about making ppl understand security. Users are rather stupid by nature. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a job. I think however, having them use the software and equipment, making natural, and letting them watch the news and read the magazines, and talk to the clients about "oh, that worm/virus/hack, didn't affect us. I cannot make users understand why they need to change passwords. They argue and whine and cry alot, but they do change those passwords. My wife, my family are not tech savvy folks. But they humor me and they take precautions, then they patiently listen to their friends and collegues complain about virii, ftp and irc servers they were unwittingly running on thier systems. Then I get to overhear my family say things like "well why don't you have a Router/Firewall thingy... it works for me" 9out of 10, that silly little NAT on the linksys is enough to ward off penetrations to home computers, for home manual non-reading users. Ferrari?!? Um, need a son, or another admin... I don't even own a car *grin* ---------- From: Schmehl, Paul L Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2003 6:44 PM To: Robert J. Liebsch; Michael Reilly; Kurt Seifried Cc: Ben Tyson-Norrman; full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm
-----Original Message----- From: Robert J. Liebsch [mailto:rliebsch () stoneyamashita com] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:45 PM To: Michael Reilly; Schmehl, Paul L; Kurt Seifried Cc: Ben Tyson-Norrman; full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm I have on asbestos underwear, so I am prepared for your flames...
You should be, since you're using HTML email. :-)
However, Because security is inconvenient does not make it irrelevant. You do have your car serviced? You do go see a doctor regularly? You do perform maintenance to your home? ....don't you?
Yes, but I don't expect my 20 year old daughter to jump in my Ferrari and drive it safely either. She drives the Honda Civic, and after she's got some experience under her belt and has gone to driving school *then* I'll consider giving her the keys to the Ferrari. I'd rather have an inexperienced user behind a PFW any day than expect them to understand and *properly* implement NAT *and* a firewall. I'd rather have them introduced to the concept of security in a way that they understand than to shove it down their throats with technology they don't comprehend and can't possibly use correctly. Paul Schmehl (pauls () utdallas edu) Adjunct Information Security Officer The University of Texas at Dallas AVIEN Founding Member http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/ _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm, (continued)
- RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm JT (Jun 05)
- Re: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm morning_wood (Jun 05)
- Re: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm Shawn McMahon (Jun 05)
- RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm JT (Jun 05)
- Re: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm Shawn McMahon (Jun 05)
- RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm JT (Jun 05)
- Re: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm Nick FitzGerald (Jun 05)
- RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm JT (Jun 04)
- RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm Lars Duesing (Jun 05)
- RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm Cedric Blancher (Jun 05)
- Re[2]: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm Frank J. Hoffmann (Jun 05)
- Re: Re[2]: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm lee . x . james (Jun 05)
- Re: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm Valdis . Kletnieks (Jun 05)