Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq
From: Ka <ka () khidr net>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:38:52 +0100
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At Freitag, 10. Januar 2003 04:13 David M. Wilson wrote:
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 01:18:49AM +0100, Ka wrote:
[That citation was part of a private message, but it's ok for me to talk about it in public]
What the fuck is going on in American minds after the Daffy Moron Cockeyed Act? As soon as someone mentions "copyright" or "license" you seem to p... - read: stop thinking immediatedly.This is a totally seperate issue from the DMCA - it is a matter of basic human rights to ownership over the product of their craftsmanship.
But the whole world is the craftsman, not the single personality who just happened to suffer from soo much egoistic inferiority feeling that he/she was the first to run to the patent office. Or the first one to post the exploit for that matter. Einstein said, if he wouldn't have written the Special Relativity Theory, somebody else would've done it 3-6 months later. With your very argument you proove, that the ideas of personal intellectual property are allready so deeply burned into our brains, that we cannot argue without them. And the DMCA is the blain blossoming out of that commercial egoistic fixation.
... in the U.K. I have always been taught that copyright is implicit; once I create something, it is my property. Whether I mark it "(c) m4d h4x0r, DO N0T D1STr0!", or not.
This is it: you have been told... and now you defend it as your opinion. But even that opinion is not your intellectual property, it is (c) 300-2000 by Christian/Western Conditioning. It is one way to see the things, only one of many possible standpoints.
A large unweildy database of exploit code owned and controlled by scores of anonymous hackers spread across the globe presents a massive legal nightmare.
And the very same data controlled by commercial and political (read: 'lawful') interests spread around the globe presents a massive nightmare regarding my personal freedom. As an individual it is my personal experience that the modern societies are anti-individual. I don't feel supported in my individuality by society or laws and I feel less and less so nowadays. I also see a strong (basically desirable) tendency to align US and EU laws - - especially regarding patents and intellectual property - hence I'm involved with US laws too. Society and laws interrelate to our ways of thinking and living, they should be made according to us and not vice versa.
You could spend millions contacting each and every individual to get his/her consent for use of their code, or you can simply just pull the plug.
First pull the plug from your own mind, Agent Wilson.
This is indeed 100% success for Microsoft - they managed to implant their ideas about copyright and licensing into nearly everybody coming near a computer.Yeah man, Microsoft invented capitalism. Whether most people agree with me or not (and especially not on this list), intellectual property protects us just as much as it damages us. (</troll>)
Why do you mention the topic of agreement when you express your opinion? If not because we are used/educated/drugged into seeking agreement? Microsoft was just an example, you are totally right that Microsoft did not invent capitalism. But capitalism is not the problem, nor is it the question of who invented what. The conditioning is what I was speaking about. The fixed trails of thought, the prerecorded arguments, the cemented ways of thinking.
Even some basic historical reading will show you that Microsoft were not the inventors of the closed-source binary, it happened long before that. When? I don't know, nor do I care. Time for bed. Try The Cathedral And The Bazaar, ESR rants about a closed-source driver for a Xerox prototype printer in the 70s IIRC.
Historic facts are nice, aint't they? One can look them up in books and tell stories to the grandchilds. Closed source was the rule in the 60ies - - anybody older and still living? But what we do NOW - or don't do - will be historic in a few years. We decide NOW wether this millenium becomes Daffy or Digital. And WE decide it, WE determine the acts, not vice versa. If the acts are not in accordance with our reality any longer, they have to be changed or dropped. If that's not done and it comes to a fight between reality and law, I bet all my Euros on reality. Intellectual Property is nonsense in the 21st millenium and calling an act a "Millenium Act" is reminding me of the Third Reich, which was called the "Millenial Reich" here in Germany. As a German I might be overly sensitive, but I tell you: the American Way of thinking, the new US laws and politics are fascist on their roots. Sorry for breaking the list charter with this post, but the security related arguments in this group just reflect the global eco-political situation. Ka - -- Want hear Ancient Music In The Pines? Must find remote. Must change channel. http://www.khidr.net/users/ka/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+Hoac72vu22ltWBERAhJxAJ4gg+84aFtOX9+Hec7sbnxTFUHonwCfXM1E /4BqwOldkhacshKrNmvbB04= =1L4Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq, (continued)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Blue Boar (Jan 10)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Ken Dyke (Jan 11)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Nick Jacobsen (Jan 11)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Roland Postle (Jan 11)
- SF archive Nicob (Jan 11)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Blue Boar (Jan 10)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Dave Aitel (Jan 10)
- Message not available
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq David M. Wilson (Jan 10)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Ka (Jan 10)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Ken Dyke (Jan 10)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Ka (Jan 11)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Ken Dyke (Jan 12)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq O.C.Rochford (Jan 12)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq hellNbak (Jan 12)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq Nicob (Jan 12)
- Re: Fwd: fuck symantec & boycott bugtraq hellNbak (Jan 12)