Full Disclosure mailing list archives
RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release
From: "Nicolas Villatte" <Nicolas.Villatte () advalvas be>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:03:17 +0100
The reference to SQL worm was here because this incident triggered such debate a bit everywhere. The elite term I used is here to define few selected people that would be aware of complementary information around vulnerability, not at all some kind of quality distinction. The proof of concept or any piece of code will allow to have further insight in the vulnerability, I do not believe you can explain in a standard way programming related stuff the way you would with a piece of code. For me a highly detailed advisory should include a code example, else it is not that highly detailed. I never stated you were talking about the SQL worm; it was just used as an example in the current context, and "stabbed" was used more as an allegory. Best regards, Nicolas. -----Message d'origine----- De : Strategic Reconnaissance Team [mailto:recon () snosoft com] Envoyé : mardi 28 janvier 2003 21:10 À : Nicolas Villatte Cc : full-disclosure () lists netsys com Objet : Re: RE : [Full-Disclosure] [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Nicolas, I think that you should re-read the e-mail that I posted to full-disclosure. The message had nothing to do with the recent SQL worm, nor was it even mentioned anywhere. The focus of the message was to help determine legitimate reasons, if any, to release proof of concept code to everyone. As I stated, full disclosure is a powerful resource and helped to educate the possibly vulnerable. However, is proof of concept code a requirement to educate the possibly vulnerable? My argument is that a highly detailed advisory would more than suffice. Now, just out of curiosity, where did I mention worm, virus, or even being stabbed? To answer your question: Do you prefer to be aware of the exploit like the ones that will use it after some modifications or do you prefer only some "elite" is able to harm the systems? I prefer to be aware of the vulnerability and to know how to fix the vulnerability. Once the vulnerability is repaired, all of your exploits are rendered useless. As for being "elite", well, I have a hard time considering people elite when they negatively impact the human race. They are quite literally, not superior. So, as an argument of opinion,f I'll have to go ahead and disagree there... Ok... (office space speak) On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 14:22, Nicolas Villatte wrote:
I am sorry but people who made this virus does not appear as script kiddies to me. Do you prefer to be aware of the exploit like the ones that will use it after some modifications or do you prefer only some "elite" is able to harm the systems? Personally, I prefer to die seeing my enemy than being stabbed. -----Message d'origine----- De : full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com [mailto:full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com] De la part de
Strategic
Reconnaissance Team Envoyé : lundi 27 janvier 2003 3:19 À : full-disclosure () lists netsys com Objet : [Full-Disclosure] [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release All, I have been following the subject of full disclosure for a while, and
as
most of you know, have dealt with some of the issues that full disclosure can cause (HP/Secure Network Operations/DMCA). While the idea of full disclosure is a good idea, and while we support it, we
feel
that the exploit source code should not be released to everyone. It is possible to prove a vulnerability exists by releasing well
written
advisories. Because of this fact, proof of concept code (exploit source) is not a requirement for the education of the possibly vulnerable. Releasing non-malicious exploit code is also not an option as any local script bunny/kiddie can easily render it functional. Proof of concept code is useful for legitimate contract based penetration tests. It is also useful for study as it demonstrates fundamental flaws computers today (not built in security). But again, proof of concept code is not for everyone. I am interested in hearing the opinions of the people on this list. If you are for exploit source disclosure, I would like to hear arguments supported by facts, that explain why. I am equally interested in reasons why not to disclose information. With that said, Secure Network Operations, Inc. will no longer be releasing functional proof of concept code. We may release
sufficiently
detailed advisories.
-- Strategic Reconnaissance Team <recon () snosoft com> Secure Network Operations, Inc.
Attachment:
smime.p7s
Description:
Current thread:
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release, (continued)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Day Jay (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release ATD (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Day Jay (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release KF (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Day Jay (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release KF (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Steve Poirot (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Berend-Jan Wever (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release ATD (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Day Jay (Jan 28)
- RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Nicolas Villatte (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Strategic Reconnaissance Team (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release hellNbak (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Ron DuFresne (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release hellNbak (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Strategic Reconnaissance Team (Jan 29)