(no subject)

[full-disclosure () lists netsys com (full-disclosure () lists netsys com)]

Matthew,

     "These people" are a phenomenon brought about by our own actions.  We have enlisted technology to such a degree in 
this industry that we begin to "trust" it.  Do you like trust relationships?  When it comes to my computers I dont care 
if its an 8-bit machine or a 64-bit machine... I dont allow trust.  Because I know who wrote the technology... humans.  
Lets not forget that this is why we are in business to begin with.  

We in the security industry would like to be the biggest sticks on the block.  Nothing wrong with that.  The only thing 
wrong with that is we have to actually swing the stick.  I think collectively we have what it takes... its just that 
there is a HUGE amount of apathy in the industry.  When it comes to getting ideas into technology... then you either 
have to write the entire thing yourself or get some corporate development team to buy off on it, and they are listening 
to Marketing Requirement Docs from a new generation of users who are, for the most part, clueless.  So that puts 
available innovative technology back about 5 years.  And fighting for that gets tiresome after a while.

It is survival of fittest.  And if Infosec from Corporate America wants to survive.. they need to become leaner and 
meaner to adapt to the environment.

We need to understand the general cultural reasons behind this new phenomena of the el8 types.  I could care less about 
their specific reasons, as they are unconcsiously part of an organic trend.

The quicker we realize this, the quicker we can let go of our egos and use *THEM* to perpetuate our existences and our 
own individual "ethical" crusades.

-Chaos_Magician  



>    Over these last few days we have (obviously) faced numerous
> maladies
> such as mass junk mail, attacks against mailservers, ... but we
> are still
> here.  However, I see no need at all to bashing each other over
> our
> responses to the incident.  Fighting between ourselves and post
> ing this crap
> on the list both amplifies the effect of the idiots' posts, and
> lets them
> know that their effort is working -- that has got to stop.
>
>    I will be the first one to say that I applaud how Len has h
> andled all of
> this -- the list must not be moderated.  Moderating the list wo
> uld be giving
> a victory to some of the lowest scum of all time.  Rather than 
> seek
> alternatives, we have to be firm about the reason this list was
> created in
> the first place -- freedom of information.  This list was creat
> ed to inform,
> and inform quickly.  By advocating moderation, you are essentia
> lly
> advocating destroying the list.
>
>    These last few days have been a test of how strongly we bel
> ieved in the
> idea that all information should be delivered in a timely fashi
> on.  Someone
> who truly believes in the concept of full disclosure will stand
> up for it
> even as the very concept itself is attacked.  Advocating modera
> tion of the
> list, or bringing your personal struggles to the list as it fac
> es this
> attack shows that your belief in the concept of full disclosure
> is
> incredibly weak.
>
>    We must direct our anger towards these losers at these lose
> rs.  Anything
> else is an attack against our own values.  While they claim to 
> be hackers,
> their method of attack shows them to be nothing more than spoil
> ed children.
> You can either fight them or give up, there's not an inch of mi
> ddle ground.
> Are you up for it?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html




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