Firewall Wizards mailing list archives
Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe)
From: Darren Reed <darrenr () reed wattle id au>
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:42:25 +1000 (EST)
In some email I received from Adam Shostack, sie wrote:
On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 09:17:08PM +1000, Darren Reed wrote: | How about making it a felony to sell or otherwise provide software for | commercial use that contains buffer overflows ? Or make it something you | cannot "disclaim" - it should be part of the exercising of due diligence | every software company has to get them out of software before releasing it. | | I'm actually half serious about this. | | It's time to start raising the bar. | | How much does it cost the world to patch these problems up vs the developer | to put in place proper testing to find and eliminate these problems before | it goes out the door? How can we allow such a critical piece of modern life | to be such a pile of rubbish? The frightening thing is if you look from the | embedded market all the way up to super computers, there are no exceptions | in the "has a buffer overflow security hole" category. I think that, with the advent of automated code scanning tools, (RATS, ITS4) and compiler modifications (stackguard, formatguard), it becomes easier to argue that due care in creating software involves adding these tools to your build process, and not releasing code that doesn't scan clean.
Crap. I don't think you fully understand the problem. All they can do is find already known problems. Tell me how any of those are going to find a buffer overflow in a new daemon someone writes tomorrow with its own custom protocol ?
Before there were standard tools for this purpose, it was harder to make the argument--what was ok code or not was a matter of debate and personal opinion or style.
Oh rubbish. If you've ever studied software engineering as a process you'll know about things like unit testing, regression testing, etc. That was before "testing tools". How can space shuttle s/w engineers produce code of such a high quality yet nobody else? Answer: their processes ensure it happens. They don't need ISS or whatever. Problem is nobody does much of this. For example, where's the tests for each and every libc call to ensure they don't core dump when supplied with parameters 16k long, etc ? OpenBSD may be "audited" but what has been done to make sure it stays that way aside from requiring a human to check every single change ? Yes, it might be boring work to setup and maintain, but the returns, even if only peace of mind, should be worth it. Darren _______________________________________________ firewall-wizards mailing list firewall-wizards () nfr com http://list.nfr.com/mailman/listinfo/firewall-wizards
Current thread:
- Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Joseph Steinberg (Aug 06)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention inwarnings(Frank Knobbe) Paul Cardon (Aug 07)
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- Re: Checkpoint rule 0 "unknown est. tcp connection" drops Lance Spitzner (Aug 10)
- Checkpoint rule 0 "unknown est. tcp connection" drops black (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention inwarnings(Frank Knobbe) Paul Cardon (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Darren Reed (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Marcus J. Ranum (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Damir Rajnovic (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Adam Shostack (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Darren Reed (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Adam Shostack (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Darren Reed (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Predrag Zivic (Aug 10)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Adam Shostack (Aug 11)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Adam Shostack (Aug 10)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Marcus J. Ranum (Aug 07)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) R. DuFresne (Aug 08)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Darren Reed (Aug 10)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) David Wagner (Aug 08)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) Predrag Zivic (Aug 08)
- Re: Re: Code Red: What security specialist don't mention in warnings(Frank Knobbe) David Wagner (Aug 10)