Re: Paid-for Vendor talk .... seems legit?

["Blackwell, Joseph M" <Joseph.M.Blackwell () boeing com>]

"Well, now! You girls are just burnin' with righteousness, aren't you? Problem is you think you're blazing like suns; 
when really, you're burning like matchsticks in the face of the darkness!"
Nathon Fillion as Caleb - Buffy The vampire Slayer.

Sorry, couldn't resist the off chance to use both a Buffy Quote that ALSO includes Nathon Fillion. You hit the nail on 
the head (or the spike on the head?). Well thought out and presented, Moxie. I think it is safe to say that anyone 
hosting or speaking at a conference has a vested interest. I have yet to attend one that doesn't include some sort of 
marketing. With that being said, the point is not who is paying or why there are there, but more of what they say and 
how that contributes to the industry. I am a wee bit tired of the scare tactics and dime store advice. DEFCON is a 
conference that does it right. It is about community involvement and hands-on learning. Leaves one with actual skills 
and tools to take back to their homesteads. THAT is value added. In my limited experience Infiltrate is on the same 
plane....with an open bar of course. 

-----Original Message-----
From: dailydave-bounces () lists immunityinc com [mailto:dailydave-bounces () lists immunityinc com] On Behalf Of Moxie 
Marlinspike
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:20 PM
To: dailydave () lists immunityinc com
Subject: Re: [Dailydave] Paid-for Vendor talk .... seems legit?


> On 21.3.2012 15:26, Dave Aitel wrote:
> > Why is it that every conference has gone the full hog and decided 
> > that you must sell keynotes?

As odious as paid keynotes might be, I wonder if this is just a more direct representation of how all conferences work. 
 Running a security conference comes with a certain amount of power; even if they're not paid, the ability to choose 
which submitted talks will be given allows the organizers to define the narrative for what people think is happening 
and what's important.

Paid keynotes exemplify an obvious microcosm of how this can play out.
Even when there are no paid keynotes, however, most security conferences today are put together by organizations or 
individuals who have a business stake in the security industry.  So while Immunity might not accept paid keynotes, it 
should be no surprise that the types of talks at Infiltrate are what they are.  That is to say, Infiltrate doesn't need 
to accept paid keynotes, because the unpaid talks are already selected to contribute to Immunity's business.

I fully believe that, within the context that Immunity has identified as contributing to its success, they will select 
talks based on technical content, speaking ability, and prevalence of buffy quotes.  But while BHEU had a 30 minute 
commercial for Fortigate, let's not forget that Infiltrate is in some sense one really big commercial for Immunity.

This isn't to say that I dislike watching the Immunity commercial, or that I don't appreciate its subtlety, but I think 
we should be wary of suggesting that these things are somehow "vendor neutral" or devoid of vendor influence when the 
organizers themselves are very often vendors and yield considerably more influence that a single paid talk ever could.

- moxie

--
http://www.thoughtcrime.org
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