RE: CISSP Question

["David Gillett" <gillettdavid () fhda edu>]

  Best reference for this is the (ISC)2 web site, www.isc2.org .  But off
the top of my head:

  More or less.  You need experience in security or security management;
I'm not sure generalized IT management qualifies, and some of the domains
include security that isn't necessarily just about computers.

  If I recall correctly, though, you only need three years IF your degree
is in the subject, as yours will be.

  Also, there's a fairly new "Associate" designation available for those 
who can pass the exam but lack the experience the cert requires.  Whether
employers give that any weight is up to them, of course.

David Gillett


> -----Original Message-----
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com 
> [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Tolson
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:57 PM
> To: Simmons,James; andrews () rbacomm com
> Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com
> Subject: CISSP Question
>
> I am in the process of getting my Master's in Information 
> Systems Security and my CCE for KSU.  
>
> As far as the CISSP, it is my understanding that you need 
> four years of experience in computer security or IT 
> Management.  Is that true?
>
> Elizabeth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Simmons, James" <jsimmons () eds com>
> > Sent: Apr 27, 2007 3:24 PM
> > To: andrews () rbacomm com
> > Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com
> > Subject: RE: Value of certifications
> >
> > ISACA does have a standard that is used in many places. So does DISA 
> > (government entity), ISECOM, OWASP, and many others. Of 
> course if you 
> > just blindly follow a standard procedure  then you are not 
> worth your 
> > pay as a professional to begin with. If you are not 
> re-evaluating your 
> > own procedure constantly let alone someone else's, then you 
> are already 
> > behind the power curve. Base procedures are a good way to cover the 
> > basics, and ensure you don't forget something small. That is 
> why they 
> > are considered a set of best practices. There is never a 
> single common 
> > procedure that will fit 100% of the situations. That is what you are 
> > being paid for as a professional. It is a lot like a lawyer. You can 
> > easy use a cookie cutter form for any legal document, but you pay a 
> > lawyer to ensure that your particular situation is covered.
> >
> > > Are you seriously arguing that most people who get their 
> CISSP didn't
> > learn anything new >to pass?  Would the same apply to the 
> CISA and CISM 
> > tests from ISACA?
> >
> > I am not arguing that people do not learn anything new in 
> the process. 
> > I am saying that the purpose of the cert is to prove that you have a 
> > baseline of acceptable knowledge in that field. I am making 
> the point 
> > that if you are taking a cert to learn something new, then you are 
> > confused as to the purpose of a certification. If you are taking the 
> > CISSP to learn about security, then you are providing a great 
> > disservice to your employer. It is a sampling issue, the difference 
> > between creating a test to ensure knowledge, and creating 
> knowledge to 
> > pass a test.  Unless you want to argue that the CISSP test 
> covers all 
> > information that is relevant to computer security, in which case I 
> > would just have to laugh at you, and then silently cry at the turn 
> > humanity has taken. I would hope that not even ISC2 would 
> take that stance.
> > On a side note, look at the board of directors for ISC2. 
> They are all 
> > computer security people. So granted they have enough people for the 
> > technical experience, but where is the resource for education and 
> > psychology? Only one person (the only professor) has any sort of 
> > background in education and training. So how is a group of people 
> > suppose to make a general certification to determine the knowledge 
> > level for everyone that takes this test?
> > One teacher is not enough for a valid education system. When was the 
> > last time you had a horrible teacher/ professor? What are 
> the chances 
> > that this guy is such a savant in teaching that he can 
> handle all the 
> > executive level education decision needs of this company by 
> himself? At 
> > least ISACA has three professors on their board of directors.
> >
> > > While I wish they cost less, since I will be paying for any tests
> > myself, the are at
> > > what the market will bear.  If you can make one cheaper that is just
> > effective, go ahead
> > > and do so.  :)
> >
> > And that is my point. This is a call to arms of sorts. We need a new 
> > system. Who doesn't agree? What points do you have that this 
> system is 
> > the best and doesn't need to be changed drastically?  I am 
> proposing as 
> > an example a system that has been working (ASE). It is far from 
> > perfect, but it is better then our current system. The 
> problem, is that 
> > nothing is going to change until more people wake up and see 
> the flaws 
> > in the current system. Especially with computer security, an 
> industry 
> > that was created with the mindset that you can never really 
> trust what 
> > people say, because we are always looking for man-in-the-middle 
> > attacks, social engineering, and other anomalies that we have to 
> > protect against. This should go out to hiring managers, and the 
> > decision makers. Point out the flaw in the hiring practices. 
> I can not 
> > be the only one who is tired of having to work with someone who is 
> > completely unqualified and believes that they are the best.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Simmons
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: listbounce () securityfocus com 
> > [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
> > On Behalf Of andrews () rbacomm com
> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:13 AM
> > To: security-basics () securityfocus com
> > Subject: RE: Value of certifications
> >
> >
> > Quoting "Simmons, James" <jsimmons () eds com>:
> >
> > > Do you honestly think that any of these companies have put 
> that much 
> > > time and effort into their tests?
> >
> > The ISC2 is far from a startup company.  ISACA has also been 
> around a 
> > while.  And their COBIT standard is used many places....
> >
> > I may be wrong, but I think they have put some thought into 
> their tests.
> > > They are not getting the certs to learn anything new. They are 
> > > getting
> >
> > > them to prove that they know.
> >
> > Are you seriously arguing that most people who get their 
> CISSP didn't 
> > learn anything new to pass?  Would the same apply to the 
> CISA and CISM 
> > tests from ISACA?
> >
> > > And at that
> > > point I question why these certs have to cost so much?
> >
> > While I wish they cost less, since I will be paying for any tests 
> > myself, the are at what the market will bear.  If you can make one 
> > cheaper that is just effective, go ahead and do so.  :)
> >
> > Brad