RE: FAX a virus

["Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>]

PS, they should be analysed before people cry wolf.

This is the point. FUD is rampant in the security industry. Rather than
jumping blindly on the bandwagon, we should be thinking first, acting
responsibly and rejecting unproven BS.

If I state that we are vulnerable to attacks from grey aliens, I would
expect that I have to prove both that there are grey alins and that we
are vulnerable BEFORE anyone goes off the wagon and starts panicing.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Anderson [mailto:dtndan () gmail com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2007 12:18 PM
To: Craig Wright
Cc: Nick Duda; anonymous () email com; security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: FAX a virus

Nick, I wouldn't waste my time.  Craig seems to want to hear himself
rant today.

You can tell because he is screaming about FUD, making cracks about who
is "professional" and who is not, bringing in lots of nonrelated info,
and giving us unnecessary background info, but not useful info like
current ITU standards, T.30, T.38, etc.

Suffice it to say that FAX has grown up into a digital data protocol,
and there are various potential areas that could be explored once you
get your head around the fact that a FAX no longer has to involve paper
any more and, if it is ever analog, is only analog for the physical bit
between the modems (which really doesn't matter one way or the other).

While the OP suggested a situation that could not really occur (inject
macro type virus over FAX) a variety of buffer overflows (driver, tiff
libraries, PDF libraries, etc), etc should be analyzed and not merely
declared as "FUD, FUD, FUD".

Dan


On 3/6/07, Craig Wright <cwright () bdosyd com au> wrote:


        No, the attach is not against the fax. It is not via the fax
comms. It
        is simply an attack against a cisco over IP that you are
assuming.

        The cisco can not be attacked in the manner you suggest.

        Please feel free to prove me wrong.

        Craig

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Nick Duda [mailto:nduda () VistaPrint com]
        Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2007 4:18 AM
        To: Craig Wright; anonymous () email com
<mailto:anonymous () email com> ; security-basics () securityfocus com
        Subject: RE: FAX a virus

        Fax machine + Cisco ATA + IP + CallManager = Fax machine

        Fax machine can = software

        Fax can be IP/Software based....a possible vector for an attack.

        ________________________________

        From: listbounce () securityfocus com on behalf of Craig Wright
        Sent: Fri 3/2/2007 11:51 PM
        To: anonymous () email com; security-basics () securityfocus com
        Subject: RE: FAX a virus




        FAX!
        There is NO UDP/IP port. NO TCP/IP port. No IP Address.


        FAX is not IP based.


        Not theory at all. FUD!


        Craig

        ________________________________

        From: listbounce () securityfocus com
<mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com>  on behalf of anonymous () email com
        Sent: Fri 2/03/2007 6:31 AM
        To: security-basics () securityfocus com
        Subject: Re: FAX a virus



        Perhaps something along these lines:

        Dependant on resolving the phone number to an IP address of
course, but
        once that information is found either through social engineering
or voip
        probes you could use nmap to find which port is working as the
fax
        reciever then attempt to determine the type of fax machine and
from
        there if you knew assembly could *possibly (if the fax machine
allowed
        remote firmware upgrades) rewrite the firmware of the machine
itself but
        a more practical method would be to temporarily store
information in the
        buffer of the fax machine (this would cause garbage to be
printed for
        one thing which would be a big annoyance).

        And from what you have described from your setup the software
itself may
        be vulnerable to memory bounds checks etc. You would want to
research
        the software using lists such as this if you are truely afraid
of
        vulnerabilities in your fax application.

        Again this is more theoretical then practical but you get the
idea.


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must not use or disclose the information. If you have received this email in error, please inform us promptly by reply 
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