RE: Recommending an IDS system

["Buyer Jr, David" <DBuyer () KaleidaHealth Org>]

I think your talking about the HIDS product. I cant say anything for or
against ISS on that since I haven't used it. I have however tested the Cisco
HIDS and it is really bad. It is hard to manage and also crashes all the
time (as did the VMS system for the IDS product). Like I said before, ISS
beats Cisco hands down anyway you look at it for their IDS product
(especially the inline Proventia stuff). See for yourself though and have
both of them bring in their appliances and test them yourself.

David Buyer



-----Original Message-----
From: Nero, Nick [mailto:Nick.Nero () disney com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:17 PM
To: D B; security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Recommending an IDS system


Holy cow stay away from ISS, man.  It is a horrible product.  Were I to do
it all over again, I would push for Snort over their solution.  We recently
had 20 tech support people from ISS onsite telling us that they still don't
know why it is crashing Win2k and Solaris boxes (core dumps!) after 1 year
of chasing bugs down on version 6.5.  And of course they are saying if we
upgrade to version 7.0 everything will be fine.  But they just had a
security hole in the agent for 7.0, so it doesn't look like they made that
much progress.  Seriously, we have it disabled on over half of our servers
because it was either crashing them outright (tclproc.exe likes to eat 100%
of the CPU), or it blocks traffic even when configured not to do so.

Stay away.  I hear Cisco's Okena/CSA is pretty awesome.

Nick Nero
CISSP, MCSE (2k3/2k/NT), CCNA
The Walt Disney Company
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: D B [mailto:be281 () bfn org] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:54 AM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: Recommending an IDS system

In-Reply-To: <3BAFCFDABE11C64DA68B005B0682BB84BF1B18 () cnbmail cnb-waco com>

Last week I sent a bunch of people some of my information on Cisco and ISS
systems. Could someone post it here again or email me it. I have been
getting more requests for it and I dont want to write it up all over again.
I know, I should have saved it in the "sent mail" folder but it got deleted.
Thanks in advance.



David Buyer





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> Subject: RE: Recommending an IDS system

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> Thread-Topic: Recommending an IDS system

> Thread-Index: AcQFShDFzrn8axlQRSKMnBaG6NqgzQAABqwA

> From: "Josh Mills" <JMills () cnbwaco com>

> To: "Buyer Jr, David" <DBuyer () KaleidaHealth Org>,

>       <security-basics () securityfocus com>

>

> I setup a dragon solution about a year ago and it seemed like it was =

> very difficult to configure when compared to all the rest of the 
> systems =

> partially because of the way you had to go online and get a license for 
> =

> each service then download a key and try to load the key and make it 
> all =

> work together. This may have all changed by now but at the time i had a 
> =

> ton of trouble getting it installed.=20

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Buyer Jr, David [mailto:DBuyer () KaleidaHealth Org]

> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:59 AM

> To: security-basics () securityfocus com

> Subject: RE: Recommending an IDS system=20

>

>

> Havent used that one but Enterasys is a pretty good company.

>

> David Buyer

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: eeefm [mailto:eeefm () singnet com sg]

> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:13 AM

> To: 'Buyer Jr, David'; security-basics () securityfocus com

> Subject: RE: Recommending an IDS system=20

>

>

> What you think of Dragon ? Thank you.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Buyer Jr, David [mailto:DBuyer () KaleidaHealth Org]=20

> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:29 AM

> To: 'security-basics () securityfocus com'

> Subject: RE: Recommending an IDS system=20

>

>

> We have been using Cisco IDS systems for a number of years and recently

> switched over to the new ISS Proventia Series appliances. I have worked

> with both extensively and I have to say that the ISS solution is MUCH

> better than the Cisco solution. Some of the big differences are that 
> the

> ISS people get out a sig about 2 weeks before Cisco even touches it.

> Also, the Cisco sensors don't have a way of automatically downloading

> and installing the new sigs. Its all a manual process that is a pain in

> the A** Reporting is much much better and faster on the ISS as well.

> There are many more advantages of going with ISS so if you need anymore

> info email me. I still have all my data sheets that I did when we were

> testing all the solutions.

>

> PS - go with the inline stuff (IPS). Snort also has an inline patch

> available.

>

> David Buyer

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Josh Mills [mailto:JMills () cnbwaco com]

> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 6:19 PM

> To: Reza Kordi; Andy Cuff; security-basics () securityfocus com

> Subject: RE: Recommending an IDS system=20

>

>

> I have implemented a new cisco ids solution and i am very pleased with

> it! the signatures are highly tunable for a commercial package and it

> seems to be pretty stable. the sensor itself runs on redhat so maybe it

> isnt that much different than snort.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Reza Kordi [mailto:rk () 4unet net]

> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:03 PM

> To: 'Andy Cuff'; security-basics () securityfocus com

> Subject: RE: Recommending an IDS system=20

>

>

> Hi Andy

>

> How good can vendor independant IDS solutions (Specially Opensource)

> work in an Enterprise Cisco Based network?

>

> What do you think about Cisco IDS solutions?

>

>

> Best Regards

> Mit freundlichen Gr=FCssen

> Meilleures Salutations

> med vennlig hilsen

> =20

> Reza Kordi

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Andy Cuff [mailto:lists () securitywizardry com]=20

> Sent: Samstag, 28. Februar 2004 11:21

> To: Matthew MacAulay; security-basics () securityfocus com

> Subject: Re: Recommending an IDS system=20

> Importance: Low

>

> Hi Mat,

> I was faced with the same dilemma some years back, my site below 
> details

> the various technologies you can bring to bear.  I also wrote an 
> article

> for SecurityFocus regarding deploying IDS from a vendor neutral

> standpoint http://wwwsecurityfocus.com/infocus/1754

>

> I'd suggest starting simply and building up but always keep the defence

> in depth end goal in sight.  Also, don't forget that in addition to

> detecting attacks you have to react to them also.  If you need further

> advice offlist don't hesitate to ask.

>

> Finally, if you go down the Network IPS route there are 2 main

> varieties; rate based and content based, I refer to the former as 
> Attack

> Mitigation Systems  they fill an important role but IMHO are not IPS.

> Ideally you

> should have both varieties.   There are some products that claim to do

> both,

> but .....

>

> take care

> -andy

> Talisker Security Tools Directory http://www.securitywizardry.com

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Matthew MacAulay" <matthew.macaulay () cobweb couk>

> To: <security-basics () securityfocus com>

> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:36 PM

> Subject: Recommending an IDS system

>

>

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > I have been tasked with looking at and recommending an IDS system 
> > for=20

> > my company.

> >

> > I have been looking at open source products (Snort) which seems to 
> > be=20

> > a very good system with a lot of community support. My problem is 
> > we=20

> > are an ASP We want connections to be able to reach our systems for=20

> > the services we provide. I want to be able to monitor over 100=20

> > internet facing servers (behind Firewalls and load balancers) and=20

> > alert / and possibly block non normal traffic / detected attack=20

> > signatures.

> >

> > After doing some reading into different methods IDS v IPS, Host v=20

> > Network, I favour a combination, we have at anyone time up to 
> > 50,000=20

> > concurrent connections to our systems so I have a problem of 
> > scale.=20

> > One Snort box is just not going to cut it!

> >

> > Looking at how I can "tap" into the network traffic has been 
> > partially

>

> > solved by using IDSVLANS which is supported by our Switch 
> > hardware.=20

> > (Nortel 8600) So an IDSVLAN could be setup for each of our 
> > existing=20

> > VLANS and a couple of load balanced IDS boxes per IDSVLAN to alert 
> > to=20

> > a central server to produce reports / alert / wake people up....=20

> > Sounds great.

> >

> > Though I have not looked at it in as much detail as network based 
> > IDS,

>

> > I expect I can get a hosts based IDS to also alert (SNMP or what 
> > ever)

>

> > to a central server to again produce reports / alerts / wake 
> > people=20

> > up.

> >

> > I am interested to here what systems you use to do IDS / IPS. Do 
> > you=20

> > have in place IDS systems for platforms of a larger or similar 
> > scale?=20

> > I would like to here from people have who have faced similar=20

> > challenges

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