Security Basics mailing list archives
RE: military strike possible?
From: "Mickey S. Olsberg" <mickey.olsberg () pc-ems com>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:34:11 -0700
Just to chime in here, and put this thing back into topic: The arguments listed in this thread seem to be a little misguided, or perhaps even naive to the workings of the US Military. You have taken a legitimate thread about cyber-terrorism (information, or rather unconventional warfare) and linked it to bombs and WMD (more conventional warfare). While one possibly could lead to the other, it is more likely that one (info.) will be used to assist with the other (conv.). If an enemy is attacking by conventional means, isn't it safe to say that the enemy might want to access their networks to determine where the troops are going and with what supplies? Wouldn't they want to hack that system and divert those troops and supplies to a place of their choosing? This is too simplistic of an example, but you get the point. The next part of what I have to say should serve to clue some in to how the Government works. To say that the opinions of one person, no matter how high up, can effect change throughout something as large as the DoD; is about like saying that a President can snap his fingers and produce jobs. People that need workers hire people, and unless the President is going to start hiring more people into the Government he cannot "create" jobs. He can only make it easier for the people that can to do it. The same is true for Military policy. Donald doesn't turn his head a certain way and the Military copies his action. These are all people we are talking about, with their own opinions (look at Wes Clark on that one). While I'm sure that the NSA, CIA, FBI, DHS, etc would love it if the Military could retaliate against hackers, it just won't happen. As an example, the Military is expressly FORBIDDEN from even pinging a host that does something "questionable". One of the branches is only allowed to do an nslookup or dig against a host, even when that host is doing a port scan or a DoS attack. That's it, nslookup and dig. How does that work into the conspiracy theory? As a side note, some foreign governments treat a simple ping against one of their networks as an Act of War (we all do know the capabilities of ICMP don't we?). Because of this, and because IP spoofing is pretty easy, we are very careful. Russia sees Joe Black sitting on BellSouth ping them, so what. North Korea sees a US Military IP address ping them, whole 'nuther ball game. By the way, on the IMHO thing, when you use it, are you like saying that all of your other opinions aren't honest (the ones without it)? Just something from a person that has had to testify in Court (they tell you never to say things like "to be honest"...). ;) Mickey Olsberg Network Management/Security Instructor US Military -----Original Message----- From: Charles Smith [mailto:softwar () softwar net] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:57 AM To: Ranjeet Shetye; Raymer, Dan Cc: 'Meritt James'; security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: Re: military strike possible? In ref. to the bombing of the PRC embassy in Belgrade... Isn't it amazing that the USAF B-2 put only two bombs into the embassy - one in the computer center and one into the communications center. Its also amazing that the two so called reporters that were killed were never seen on the job as journalists. In ref. to this entire thread - e.g. would you start WWIII just because someone hacked the FAA or something similar... I find it amazing the guy who started this thread is: James W. Meritt CISSP, CISA Booz | Allen | Hamilton phone: (410) 684-6566 Last time I talked to Booz Allen - it was to interview former NSA Director Adm. McConnell. I put some of the interview online at http://www.softwar.net/mcc.html Perhaps Mr. Meritt needs to ask some of the former NSA employees working at Booz Allen on the subject line and report back to us. Charlie Smith Softwar ----- Original Message ----- From: Ranjeet Shetye <ranjeet.shetye2 () zultys com> To: Raymer, Dan <DRaymer () webmd net> Cc: 'Meritt James' <meritt_james () bah com>; <security-basics () securityfocus com> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 7:29 PM Subject: RE: military strike possible?
On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 13:08, Raymer, Dan wrote:considering that intelligence can't even tell a Chinese embassy from
a
warehouse or where senior leadership is having a meeting, how do
they expect
to hit a bunch of teenage script kiddies (or heavens forbid, REAL
crackers)
coordinating an attack via IRC?word on the streets was that the Chinese embassy was actively helping the Yugoslavs track American planes and co-ordinate attacks on
American
planes by adapting Russian technology. Remember the stealth fighter F-117A that was lost initially ? After the Chinese embassy was "counselled out", no more American F-117A were lost. http://www.fair.org/activism/embassy-bombing.html as i said, no solid proof, just word on the streets.-----Original Message----- From: Meritt James [mailto:meritt_james () bah com] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:11 AM To: 'security-basics () securityfocus com' Subject: military strike possible? Going from the premptive strike philosophy demonstrated in
Mideastern
countries, what are your thoughts on a military strike against (as
yet
unseen) "cyberterrorists" a'la http://www.msnbc.com/news/985295.asp?0si=- if there were
extranational
agents tampering with identified components of the infrastructure to the extent that they were risking human life?-- Ranjeet Shetye Senior Software Engineer Zultys Technologies Ranjeet dot Shetye2 at Zultys dot com http://www.zultys.com/ The views, opinions, and judgements expressed in this message are
solely
those of the author. The message contents have not been reviewed or approved by Zultys.
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Current thread:
- RE: military strike possible? McGill, Lachlan (Nov 03)
- Counter measures (was military strike) J Kallberg (Nov 03)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- RE: military strike possible? Mickey S. Olsberg (Nov 03)
- Re: military strike possible? J Kallberg (Nov 03)
- Re: military strike possible? Meritt James (Nov 03)
- Re: military strike possible? Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers (Nov 04)
- Re: military strike possible? salgak (Nov 03)
- Re: military strike possible? Meritt James (Nov 03)
- Re: military strike possible? Jimi Thompson (Nov 03)
- Re: military strike possible? ~Kevin DavisĀ³ (Nov 03)
- Re: military strike possible? Gero Hesse (Nov 04)
- Re: military strike possible? Barry Fitzgerald (Nov 04)
- Re: military strike possible? Chris Boyd (Admin) (Nov 05)
(Thread continues...)