Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: RFID Tags
From: <Kim.Sassaman () cox com>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:05:13 -0700
I think there could be some practical uses of RFID tags if they were more along the lines of smart cards and employed a layer of encryption or the use of digital signatures. More over anything that is physical in nature i.e. worn or carried has a huge loss potential. Implanted devices of course are not very practical at all. For basic tracking of products within a zone these serve their purpose. Facilities should have some sort of safe guard that once the tag leaves the premises the tag is then made null and no longer will respond. One has to think of the practical use of the technology. Are you as a company wanting to a. Track inventory? b. Reduce loss of assets? c. Track individuals? Depending on the need you have to then of course introduce the most cost effective method to address that need. Unfortunately that is the way business's approach security and most every other business decission, cost, cost, cost. Kim Sassaman CISSP -----Original Message----- From: James Hester [mailto:jay.hester () mci com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:51 AM To: stuart () cyberdelix net; tim () labmonkey co uk Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: RFID Tags You run the same risks with using a computer or storing data on any device, including pen and paper. A tag id by itself is worthless unless you know exactly what data is stored on it. A RFid tag has big limitations too, once you chop off part of the antenna it's worthless. The physics of radio waves limits that. You can't be tracked "everywhere" you go. It's not cost affective at all. A tag will transmit around 9 feet. Battery powered tags are to expensive now to be put on individual items. Tags can be shut down (killed) in a second with a reader. That is one way to stop tracking. Privacy groups and doomsday speakers should concentrate more on having companies shut off the tags when they are done tracking them (sold from wal-mart) then scaring the general public. Instead of fearing new technology, how about working with it to find the best ways to use it? Tech. improves every day, either we can work with it, or fight it and go back to the stone age. I would rather work with it so I can have the challenge of security then not have advancements at all. Jay -----Original Message----- From: lsi [mailto:stuart () cyberdelix net] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:50 AM To: tim () labmonkey co uk Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: Re: RFID Tags I read about some theoretical attacks on RFID: - unauthorised usage: Black Hat walks onto train with rogue ID sniffer, gets IDs of all tags in the carriage - this info might be used to compute the relative value of each commuter's clothes and belongings, and their origins. If RFIDs go into drivers licenses, passports etc, then the presence of those documents will be revealed without a search. If the RFIDs go into credit cards, Black Hat will know how many, and which ones, you have. And if RFIDs go into cash, then Black Hat will know how much you're carrying. - replay attack: sniff a tag's ID, then later, play it back to the detector and impersonate that tag "Security professionals need to realize that RFID tags are dumb devices. They listen, and they respond. Currently, they don't care who sends the signal. Anything your companies' transceiver can detect, the bad guy's transceiver can detect. So don't be lulled into a false sense of security." -- http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/169 Stuart On 10 May 2004 at 19:04, Timothy Marshall wrote: Send reply to: <tim () labmonkey co uk> From: "Timothy Marshall" <tim () labmonkey me uk> To: <pen-test () securityfocus com> Subject: RFID Tags Date sent: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:04:35 +0800 Organization: Labmonkey.co.uk
Hi, Does anyone have information / experience on how secure these tags are?
Can
the data they store be changed in anyway? Can they be copied / faked? If they are changed can the original information still be read? Cheers Tim --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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----- --- Stuart Udall stuart at () cyberdelix dot net - http://www.cyberdelix.net/ --- * Origin: lsi: revolution through evolution (192.168.0.2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. Mention this ad and get $545 off any course! All of our class sizes are guaranteed to be 10 students or less to facilitate one-on-one interaction with one of our expert instructors. Attend a course taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen testing experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of an Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization. Visit us at: http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. Mention this ad and get $545 off any course! All of our class sizes are guaranteed to be 10 students or less to facilitate one-on-one interaction with one of our expert instructors. Attend a course taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen testing experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of an Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization. Visit us at: http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. Mention this ad and get $545 off any course! All of our class sizes are guaranteed to be 10 students or less to facilitate one-on-one interaction with one of our expert instructors. Attend a course taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen testing experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of an Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization. Visit us at: http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- Re: RFID Tags, (continued)
- Re: RFID Tags Rogan Dawes (May 11)
- RE: RFID Tags James Hester (May 11)
- Re: RFID Tags Rogan Dawes (May 11)
- Re: RFID Tags lsi (May 11)
- RE: RFID Tags James Hester (May 11)
- RE: RFID Tags ktabic (May 12)
- RE: RFID Tags Rob Shein (May 11)
- RE: RFID Tags lsi (May 12)
- RE: RFID Tags James Hester (May 12)
- Re: RFID Tags c3rb3r (May 12)
- Re: RFID Tags c0ncept (May 16)
- RE: RFID Tags James Hester (May 11)
- RE: RFID Tags Rob Shein (May 12)
- Re: RFID Tags Mister Coffee (May 17)
- Re: RFID Tags lsi (May 19)
- Re: RFID Tags Mister Coffee (May 19)
- Re: RFID Tags lsi (May 21)
- Re: RFID Tags Richard Rager (May 21)