Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: Netstumbling
From: "Freeland, Jim" <jfreeland () Carlson com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:55:56 -0600
Remember the GREY area.......... Basically, you can stumble and identify other company networks. Accessing their internet connection accidentally and browsing the web will not land you in hot water. Enumerating their systems, attempting to gain heightened access levels, or attempting to view secured network objects will land you in hot water. Now you can probably get away with the old 'I didn't see a warning banner' excuse, but that doesn't hold much weight anymore. I would say scan away because the wireless network you are seeing falls into a grey area in the legal world. Nobody has defined what constitutes illegal activity. I can't imagine a judge would stick anyone with a charge for accidentally using the company across the street's internet connection to surf the web. He/She would most likely tell them to turn down the signal and lock down their connection! As with any wired network, hacking and enumeration occur daily. Sometimes successful, sometimes not. If I scan your company's network over my cable modem connection I don't get in trouble. If I compromise a box and ignore a login banner I for sure will. If I compromise a box and didn't see a login banner, I have about a 50/50 shot of not getting in trouble. I can only imagine the same 'rules of the game' apply to wireless. If I get a DHCP IP from your router, and surf the web, then scan your IP range I probably won't get in trouble. If I find a vulnerability and expose it to access secured systems, well, just like the wired world I may be punished. Don't forget, it always depends on whose system you are seeing, and what data they have. If you are Stumbling in Omaha and hit some little building with a nice database full of credit card numbers, chances are they will use everything they have to track you down. Don't do dumb things! Use the tools to identify and secure. Help, don't hurt. Otherwise you might get yours. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Nick Jacobsen [mailto:nick () ethicsdesign com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:12 AM To: stonewall; pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: Re: Netstumbling Just from my expirience, I have never had any problems, and none of my friends have reported any problems either. I will walk around downtown with my laptop open, and an external antenna on my back (looks funky, and I get some odd stares, but it works), and the most I have ever had happen is a cop ask me what I was doing... I told hime I was using my laptop to do a wireless security assesment... he just sort of looked at me oddly and walked off... probably had no idea what I was talking about... I've done this in Portland, Roseburg, Salem, Eugene (all in Oregon), as well as New Orleans and Chicago. Most of the time, the cops have no idea what you are talking about... Anyway, my 2 cents, Nick Jacobsen Ethics Design nick () ethicsdesign com ----- Original Message ----- From: "stonewall" <stonewall () cavtel net> To: <pen-test () securityfocus com> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 6:14 AM Subject: Netstumbling
HI, I need some advice. I am interested in the reaction that list members have gotten from
various
government agencies while netstumbling. Is there any clear guidance
on the
legality of 'stumbling? I am talking here about just 'stumbling, not
set to
auto reconfigure the card, just assessment and locating WAPs. You cannot be in the security business without being able to assess
threats.
In this business, paranoia is not paranoia, it is due diligence. I
believe
that anyone serious about security must be able to assess wireless
zones,
overlapping areas, buildings with multiple WAPs, etc. But have you
been
threatened by LE personnel in the process? Thanks in advance for your info. stonewall
------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- --
Are your vulnerability scans producing just another report? Manage the entire remediation process with StillSecure VAM's Vulnerability Repair Workflow. Download a free 15-day trial: http://www2.stillsecure.com/download/sf_vuln_list.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Are your vulnerability scans producing just another report? Manage the entire remediation process with StillSecure VAM's Vulnerability Repair Workflow. Download a free 15-day trial: http://www2.stillsecure.com/download/sf_vuln_list.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are your vulnerability scans producing just another report? Manage the entire remediation process with StillSecure VAM's Vulnerability Repair Workflow. Download a free 15-day trial: http://www2.stillsecure.com/download/sf_vuln_list.html
Current thread:
- Netstumbling stonewall (Mar 05)
- Re: Netstumbling IndianZ (Mar 05)
- RE: Netstumbling Ken Kousky (Mar 05)
- Re: Netstumbling Nick Jacobsen (Mar 05)
- RE: Netstumbling Andrew Ruef (Mar 06)
- Re: Netstumbling Joseph W. Shaw II (Mar 06)
- Program for automatic attack replay LordEidi (Mar 06)
- RE: Program for automatic attack replay Rob Shein (Mar 06)
- Re: Program for automatic attack replay Andreas Östling (Mar 06)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- RE: Netstumbling Freeland, Jim (Mar 06)
- RE: Netstumbling PJD (Mar 06)
- RE: Netstumbling Klahn, Paul (Mar 06)