nanog mailing list archives
Re: Why are paper LOAs still used?
From: Sean Donelan <sean () donelan com>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 14:49:26 -0500 (EST)
Authentication by letterhead?Paper LOAs are unauthenticated documents, not worth the paper they are written on. Usually FAXed, which is even less authenticatable (is that a word?).
Prosecutors are capable of using digital documents. Do it all the time with echecks, credit cards, ecommerce orders and ACH payments. But LOAs are typically civil disputes, not criminal, when someone mistypes an IP address.
They should verifiy the information in the paper LOA with a registry anyway. Since LOAs have no intrinsic value, wouldn't be worth the prosecutors time.
Usually a salesperson or order entry clerk thinks its required because they've always required it. But no one in the legal department actually knows what to do with a LOA or how to authenticate them.
Because carriers never authenticate LOAs. On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Matt Erculiani wrote:
A paper LOA is a legally binding document, an IRR record is an IRR record. Falsifying an LOA that is transmitted digitally is wire fraud and can basically be handed right over to a DA for injunction and prosecution. Falsifying IRR records on the other hand leaves more work for the ISP's lawyers to walk a judge (and jury) through the entire purpose and use of that system, as opposed to "here's a super important sheet of paper that they lied on case closed". -Matt On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 11:57 AM Seth Mattinen via NANOG <nanog () nanog org> wrote: Why do companies still insist on, or deploy new systems that rely on paper LOA for IP and ASN resources? How can this be considered more trustworthy than RIR based IRR records? And I'm not even talking about old companies, I have a situation right now where a VPS provider I'm using will no longer use IRR and only accepts new paper LOAs. In the year 2024. I don't understand how anyone can go backwards like that. ~Seth -- Matt Erculiani
Current thread:
- Why are paper LOAs still used? Seth Mattinen via NANOG (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Tom Beecher (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Peter Potvin via NANOG (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? John Kristoff (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Matt Erculiani (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Sean Donelan (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Ren Provo (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Sean Donelan (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Sean Donelan (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Tom Beecher (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Joe via NANOG (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Jay Acuna (Feb 27)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Daniel Marks via NANOG (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Tom Samplonius (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Carlos Friaças via NANOG (Feb 27)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Aaron Wendel (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Jason Canady (Feb 26)
- Re: Why are paper LOAs still used? Jay Hennigan (Feb 26)