Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed

[Alex Buie <alex.buie () frozenfeline net>]

This is not a zero sum solution. Fallback to IP geolocation if more precise
location detection is not available, but if it is, use that. You could even
have a "location score" composite index composed of all the different
locale and historical session data you've accumulated. (cf things like
cloudflare bad-actor detection which uses many heuristics to determine if
you are who you say you are and whether to serve content to you)

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Spencer Ryan <sryan () arbor net> wrote:

> And what about the millions of TVs, DVD players and all the other embedded
> devices that don't/can't support any kind of location services?
> On Jun 3, 2016 4:38 PM, "Cryptographrix" <cryptographrix () gmail com> wrote:
>
> > It's much less hard to make an IP connection lie about it's location than
> > it is to make a non-rooted (which is easy to detect) iOS device lie about
> > it's AGPS-derived location.
> >
> > In all cases.
> > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:28 PM Naslund, Steve <SNaslund () medline com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Two problem I see with that.
> > >
> > > 1.      My TV is going to have a hard time figuring out its GPS
> location
> > > inside my living room.
> > > 2.      It's not hard to make a device lie about a GPS position.
> > >
> > > Steven Naslund
> > > Chicago IL
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org] On Behalf Of
> Cryptographrix
> > > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 3:18 PM
> > > To: Robert Jacobs; Spencer Ryan
> > > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group
> > > Subject: Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed
> > >
> > > To be honest, I don't care about content providers having control over
> > > regional access controls - it's completely technologically backwards,
> but
> > > they're all about time zones so they can do what they want.
> > >
> > > BUT there are more reliable ways than using an IP to get geographic
> > > location in an era where any website can request your GPS location.
> > >
> > > They have an iOS team that can provide them with *the most
> > authoritatively
> > > precise location of my device* for their Apple TV app.
> > >
> > > My IP should be the last thing they check to determine my location. I
> can
> > > do a million things to tweak that, including things that their proxy
> > > detection will never ever find out about.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 3:55 PM Robert Jacobs <rjacobs () pslightwave com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Seems everyone continues to forget the content providers are not
> > > > Netflix...They are the Disney, Discovery, NBC, Turner ect... These
> are
> > > > the ones that put clauses and restrictions in their licensing and
> > > > re-broadcast agreements forcing things like Netflix is doing..
> > > >
> > > > Robert Jacobs | Network Director/Architect
> > > >
> > > > Direct:  832-615-7742
> > > > Main:   832-615-8000
> > > > Fax:    713-510-1650
> > > >
> > > > 5959 Corporate Dr. Suite 3300; Houston, TX 77036
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A Certified Woman-Owned Business
> > > >
> > > > 24x7x365 Customer  Support: 832-615-8000 | support () pslightwave com
> > > > This electronic message contains information from Phonoscope
> Lightwave
> > > > which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended
> > > > to be for the use of individual(s) or entity named above. If you are
> > > > not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> > > > use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have
> > > > received this electronic message in error, please notify me by
> > > > telephone or e-mail immediately.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org] On Behalf Of Spencer
> Ryan
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 2:49 PM
> > > > To: Cryptographrix <cryptographrix () gmail com>
> > > > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog () nanog org>
> > > > Subject: Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed
> > > >
> > > > I don't blame them for blocking a (effectively) anonymous tunnel
> > broker.
> > > > I'm sure their content providers are forcing their hand.
> > > > On Jun 3, 2016 3:46 PM, "Cryptographrix" <cryptographrix () gmail com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Netflix needs to figure out a fix for this until ISPs actually
> > > > > provide
> > > > > IPv6 natively.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 3:13 PM Blair Trosper
> > > > > <blair.trosper () gmail com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Confirmed that Hurricane Electric's TunnelBroker is now blocked
> by
> > > > > > Netflix.  Anyone nice people from Netflix perhaps want to take a
> > > > > > crack at this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 2:15 PM, <mike.hyde1 () gmail com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Had the same problem at my house, but it was caused by the IPv6
> > > > > > connection
> > > > > > > to HE.  Turned of V6 and the device worked.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent with Airmail
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On June 1, 2016 at 10:29:03 PM, Matthew Kaufman
> > > > > > > (matthew () matthew at)
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Every device in my house is blocked from Netflix this evening
> > > > > > > due to their new "VPN blocker". My house is on my own IP space,
> > > > > > > and the
> > > > > outside
> > > > > > > of the NAT that the family devices are on is 198.202.199.254,
> > > > > > > announced by AS 11994. A simple ping from Netflix HQ in Los
> > > > > > > Gatos to my house should show that I'm no farther away than
> > > > > > > Santa Cruz, CA as microwaves fly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Unfortunately, when one calls Netflix support to talk about
> > > > > > > this, the only response is to say "call your ISP and have them
> > > > > > > turn off the VPN software they've added to your account". And
> > > > > > > they absolutely refuse to escalate. Even if you tell them that
> > > > > > > you are
> > > > essentially your own ISP.
> > > > > > > So... where's the Netflix network engineer on the list who all
> > > > > > > of us
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > send these issues to directly?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Matthew Kaufman