nanog mailing list archives
Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality?
From: Owen DeLong <owen () delong com>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:22:45 -0800
On Nov 23, 2015, at 14:58 , Mark Andrews <marka () isc org> wrote: In message <E24772E7-A95B-4866-9630-2B1023EBD4FD () delong com <mailto:E24772E7-A95B-4866-9630-2B1023EBD4FD () delong com>>, Owen DeLong write s:On Nov 23, 2015, at 14:16 , Christopher Morrow<morrowc.lists () gmail com> wrote:On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Owen DeLong <owen () delong com> wrote:Except there’s no revenue share here. According to T-Mobile, thestreaming partnersaren’t paying anything to T-Mo and T-Mo isn’t paying them. It’s kindof like zero-ratingin that the customers don’t pay bandwidth charges, but it’s differentin that the serviceprovider isn’t being asked to subsidize the network provider (usualimplementation ofzero-rating).equal exchange of value doesn't have to be dollars/pesos/euros changing hands right? -chrisSure, but I really don’t think there’s an exchange per se in this case, given that T-Mo is (at least apparently) willing to accommodate any streaming provider that wants to participate so long as they are willing to conform to a fairly basic set of technical criteria.No. This is T-Mo saying they are neutral but not actually being so. This is like writing a job add for one particular person. Its just as easy to identify a UDP stream as it is a TCP stream. You can ratelimit a UDP stream as easily as a TCP stream. You can have congestion control over UDP as well as over TCP. Just because the base transport doesn't give you some of these and you have to implement them higher up the stack is no reason to throw out a transport.
Are there a significant number (ANY?) streaming video providers using UDP to deliver their streams? I admit I’m mostly ignorant here, but at least the ones I’m familiar with all use TCP. Further, it depends on how you define a stream… If a stream is a conversation between two particular endpoints using consistent port numbers, then sure, it’s (somewhat) easy to identify, except… OTOH, if a stream is considered all of the packets involved in a particular user watching a particular video, then depending on implementation, this could be much harder to identify over UDP than TCP. For example, if the stream is delivered via a torrent-like delivery system over UDP, it could be very hard to identify that all the various seemingly random UDP packets are part of that particular video delivery. If the requirements were specific enough that they matched a particularly small subset of video delivery services, then I might agree with you. In this case, they seem to have been written more from the technical limitations of T-Mobiles current ability to identify the traffic than targeted at a specific service. For example, I seriously doubt that video delivered from http://us-st.xhcdn.com/swf/ <http://us-st.xhcdn.com/swf/>… is likely to be among their “target candidates”. Nonetheless, it does appear that if xhcdn chooses to apply under the program, they wouldn’t have any trouble meeting the requirements. (if you want to review the kind of videos hosted on xhcdn, visit their client www.xhamster.com <http://www.xhamster.com/>. Warning… NSFW) You can make all the claims you want about how they should have or could have implemented this, but unless you have evidence that the issue is actually an attempt to circumvent the intent of net neutrality and not merely a technical limitation of their particular implementation, then I really don’t think you have a basis for your claim above. Owen
Current thread:
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality?, (continued)
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- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Blake Hudson (Nov 20)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Clay Curtis (Nov 20)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Joly MacFie (Nov 20)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Lyle Giese (Nov 20)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? William Herrin (Nov 20)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Owen DeLong (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Christopher Morrow (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Owen DeLong (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Mark Andrews (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Owen DeLong (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Baldur Norddahl (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Owen DeLong (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Mark Andrews (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Keenan Tims (Nov 23)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Mike Hammett (Nov 24)
- RE: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Tony Hain (Nov 26)
- Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality? Sander Steffann (Nov 24)