nanog mailing list archives
Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
From: Ray Soucy <rps () maine edu>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 09:01:34 -0400
Compared to the old model of just providing coverage, it's definitely higher density. I think the point I was trying to make is that the old high density is the new normal, and what most on list would consider high density is more along the lines of stadium wireless. I wouldn't really focus on the term too much, though. It's just a distraction from the real question. The answer as always is "it depends". Without detailed floor plans, survey information, and information on what kind of demand users will place on the network, there is really no way to tell you what solution will work well. If you need to service residential areas or hostel units you might be better off looking at some of the newer AP designs that have come out in the last year or so targeting that application, like the Cisco 702 or the Xirus 320. The general design of these units is that they're both a low-power AP and a small switch to provide residents with a few ports to plug in if they need to. This allows you to have one cable drop to each room instead of having to run separate jacks for APs and wired connections. The units are wall-mount and if you have a challenging RF environment this design can be really effective. I've never run Xirrus personally, but I think they were used for the last NANOG conference. On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina () gmail com> wrote:
Thanks everybody. I've been corrected on density... I've been informed that it's to be a minimum of 1000 users per building. That's 8,000 users. (8 buildings, not counting walkways and courtyards, admin, etc.) Does this qualify as high-density? On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:33 AM Ray Soucy <rps () maine edu> wrote:Well, I could certainly be wrong, but it's news to me if UBNT started supporting DFS in the US. Your first screenshot is listing the UAP for 5240 which is channel 48, U-NII-1. The second show 5825 which is the upper limit of U-NNI-3. I don't see any U-NII-2 in what you posted. This forum post may be a bit out of date, but I haven't seen any announcement or information on the forums to indicate the situation has changed, and I'm pretty good at searching: https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/DFS/m-p/700461#M54771 From this thread it looks like the ability to configure DFS channels in the US was a UI bug and only showing for ZH anyway. IIRC they actually got in a bit of trouble with the FCC over not restricting the use of these channels enough. Regardless of whether or not the FCC has cleared UBNT indoor products for U-NII-2 and U-NII-2-extended (and I haven't seen evidence of that yet), until you can configure APs to use those channels in the controller without violating FCC regulations I don't consider them usable. The UAP-AC doesn't seem to support DFS channels at all even without FCC restrictions, which kind of kills the point of AC, only 4 x 40 MHz or 2 x 80 MHz channels doesn't cut it when we're talking about density. Note we're talking about indoor wireless and there ARE some UBNT products for outdoor WISP use that do support DFS and have been cleared by the FCC, but we would only be looking at the UAP-PRO or UAP-AC in this case so maybe that's the point of confusion here. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal () snappytelecom netwrote:FCC Cert claims different. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support () Snappytelecom net ------------------------------ *From: *"Josh Luthman" <josh () imaginenetworksllc com> *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal () snappytelecom net> *Cc: *"NANOG list" <nanog () nanog org>, "Ray Soucy" <rps () maine edu> *Sent: *Friday, June 19, 2015 9:16:37 PM *Subject: *Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless networksetup? Uhm he's not wrong... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jun 19, 2015 9:13 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal () snappytelecom net>wrote:The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they don'tsupport DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5GHz.Huh ???? Please verify your facts before making blanket statements which are not accurate ... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom ----- Original Message -----From: "Ray Soucy" <rps () maine edu> To: "Sina Owolabi" <notify.sina () gmail com> Cc: "nanog () nanog org list" <nanog () nanog org> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:07:01 PM Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wirelessnetworksetup?I know you don't want to hear this answer because of cost but I'vehadgoodluck with Cisco for very high density (about 1,000 clients in apackedauditorium actively using the network as they follow along with the presenter). The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they don't support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5GHz.That's pretty significant because you're limited to 9 x 20 MHzchannelsor4 x 40 MHz channels. Keeping the power level down and creating smallcellsis essential for high density, so with less channels your hands arereallytied in that case. Also, avoid the Zero Handoff marketing nonsensetheyadvertise; I'm sure it can work great for a low client residentialareabutit requires all APs to share a single channel and depends uponcoordinatingonly one active transmitter at a time, so it simply won't scale. I don't have experience with other vendors at large scale or highdensity.I don't think what you're talking about is really high densityanymorethough. That's just normal coverage. Wireless is a lot morecomplicatedthan selecting a vendor, though. If you know what you're doing even Ubiquiti could work decently, but if you don't even a Cisco solutionwon'tsave you. You really need to be on top of surveying correctly andhavingappropriate AP placement and channel distribution. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina () gmail comwrote:Hi We are profiling equipment and design for an expected high userdensitynetwork of multiple, close nit, residential/hostel units. Its goingto be8-10 buildings with possibly a over 1000 users at any given time. We are looking at Ruckus and Ubiquiti as options to get over thehighnumber of devices we are definitely going to encounter. How did you do it, and what would you advise for product andlayout?Thanks in advance!-- Ray Patrick Soucy Network Engineer University of Maine System T: 207-561-3526 F: 207-561-3531 MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network www.maineren.net-- Ray Patrick Soucy Network Engineer University of Maine System T: 207-561-3526 F: 207-561-3531 MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network www.maineren.net
-- Ray Patrick Soucy Network Engineer University of Maine System T: 207-561-3526 F: 207-561-3531 MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network www.maineren.net
Current thread:
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?, (continued)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Faisal Imtiaz (Jun 19)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Josh Luthman (Jun 19)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Faisal Imtiaz (Jun 19)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Josh Luthman (Jun 19)
- Re: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? tqr2813d376cjozqap1l (Jun 19)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Ray Soucy (Jun 19)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Sina Owolabi (Jun 20)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Rafael Possamai (Jun 20)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Marco Teixeira (Jun 20)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Rafael Possamai (Jun 20)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Faisal Imtiaz (Jun 19)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Ray Soucy (Jun 20)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Sina Owolabi (Jun 20)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? John Todd (Jun 21)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Mike Lyon (Jun 21)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Mel Beckman (Jun 21)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Mike Lyon (Jun 21)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Sina Owolabi (Jun 21)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Randy Bush (Jun 21)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Sina Owolabi (Jun 21)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Randy Bush (Jun 20)
- Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup? Ray Soucy (Jun 20)