Re: Illegal usage of AS51888 (and PI 91.220.85.0/24) from AS42989 and AS57954 (in ukraine)

[Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists () gmail com>]

On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Warren Bailey
<wbailey () satelliteintelligencegroup com> wrote:
> Abuse is abuse.. People are going to do bad things, even when you call them illegal (in some cases, as a result of 
> calling them illegal). It's not illegal to be a tool, but it is illegal to break a law. In my opinikn Laws need to be 
> written and passed, not thought about and argued over. If we are going to arbitrarily make our own laws, why don't we 
> start at something cooler than preventing a guy announcing someone's Internet addresses? I understand the magnitude 
> of these actions, but at some point we need to pay attention  to things outside of /dev/internet. Again.. I'm not 
> saying these hijackers aren't pricks, I'm saying that stealing an AS number shouldn't be illegal - committing a crime 
> with information gained should be (and is). It's not that I don't care, I just don't care that MUCH.

agreed, I wasn't of the opinion that the action was 'right', just that
calling it 'illegal' was quite a leap. I do think that putting effort
into making it significantly harder to 'hijack prefixes' is a good
thing, which is the reason I put effort into: tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr

pitching a fit from the sidelines isn't helpful, finding a way to keep
it from happening again/again/again at least tries to move the ball
forward.

-chris

> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: goemon () anime net
> Date: 05/06/2013 11:31 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Warren Bailey <wbailey () satelliteintelligencegroup com>
> Cc: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists () gmail com>,Valdis Kletnieks <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu>,NANOG <nanog () 
> nanog org>
> Subject: Re: Illegal usage of AS51888 (and PI 91.220.85.0/24) from AS42989 and AS57954 (in ukraine)
>
>
> if anyone wondered why abuse goes unchecked, wonder no longer.
>
> -Dan
>
> On Mon, 6 May 2013, Warren Bailey wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> >
> > Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists () gmail com>
> > Date: 05/06/2013 9:29 AM (GMT-08:00)
> > To: Valdis Kletnieks <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu>
> > Cc: Warren Bailey <wbailey () satelliteintelligencegroup com>,Adam Vitkovsky <adam.vitkovsky () swan sk>,Nick 
> > Hilliard <nick () foobar org>,NANOG <nanog () nanog org>
> > Subject: Re: Illegal usage of AS51888 (and PI 91.220.85.0/24) from AS42989 and AS57954 (in ukraine)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM, <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu<mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu>> wrote:
> > On Mon, 06 May 2013 15:27:35 -0000, Warren Bailey said:
> > > Illegal or undesired?
> >
> > This sort of stuff comes in two flavors: "typo" and "intentionally done
> > in furtherance of criminal activities".
> >
> > The fact that an AS number and matching IP range are involved tends to say it's
> > not a typo.
> >
> >
> > maybe warren's question is better stated: "Please point to relevant legal code in the jurisdiction(s) which are 
> > relevant." (if you feel this is 'illegal', showing where in the relevant code(s) where this would be classified as 
> > such would help)
> >
> > -chris