RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.

["Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund () medline com>]

How would this be legally different than receiving the illegal content
in an envelope and anonymously forwarding the envelope via the post
office?  I am pretty sure you are still liable since you were the
sender.  I realize that there are special postal regulations but I think
that agreeing to forward anything for anyone sight unseen is pretty
risky and I think you will have a hard time pulling of the "service
provider" defense if you are not selling services and are not licensed
as a carrier.

Steven Naslund

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patrick () ianai net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:45 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.

On Nov 29, 2012, at 11:17 , Barry Shein <bzs () world std com> wrote:

> Back in the early days of the public internet we didn't require any 
> id to create an account, just that you found a way to pay us. We had 
> anonymous accts some of whom dropped by personally to pay their bill, 
> some said hello but I usually didn't know their names and that's how 
> they wanted it, I'd answer "hello <ACCOUNT>", whatever their login was

> if I recognized them. Some mailed in something, a mail order, even 
> currency tho that was rare but it did happen, or had someone else drop

> by to pay in cash (that is, no idea if they were local.)
>
> LEO occasionally served a warrant for information, usually child porn 
> biz (more than just accessing child porn, selling it) tho I don't 
> remember any anonymous accts being involved.

"Mere conduit" defense.  (Please do not anyone mention "common carrier
status" or the like, ISPs are _not_ common carriers.)


> I never expected to be held accountable for anyone's behavior unless I

> was knowingly involved somehow (just the usual caveat.) LEO never 
> showed any particular interest in the fact that we were ok with 
> anonymous accounts. If I was made aware of illegal activities we'd 
> shut them off, didn't really happen much, maybe some credible 
> "hacking" complaint on occasion.

How do you "shut off" a Tor "account"?


> It's funny, it's all illusion like show business. It's not hard to set

> up anonymous service, crap, just drop in at any wi-fi hotspot, many 
> just ask you to click that you accept their T&Cs and you're on. Would 
> they raid them, I was just using one at a major hospital this week 
> that was just like that, if someone used that for child porn etc? But 
> I guess stick your nose out and say you're specifically offering anon 
> accts and watch out I guess.

Do you think if the police found out child pr0n was being served from a
starbux they wouldn't confiscate the equipment from that store?

--
TTFN,
patrick