nanog mailing list archives
RE: Common operational misconceptions
From: "Brandt, Ralph" <ralph.brandt () pateam com>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:01:34 -0500
Hammer, you are at least 75% right. You will get flamed and in most cases, the 35 year age is close to right. But then in Programming where I spent most of my IT time since Feb 1963, few current programmers have skills that they need to be really successful. Same thing. It is the fault of the educational system like one school district here that teaches Alice, VB and then two days of C++ to High School Kids. Heck, they will fiddle with Alice on their own. They need some exposure to one of the SQL's and how to build some tables, maybe a good script language, some command line on SQL+ and unix or PostgresSQL and linux if the school can't afford the unix licenses. The fun and games is more important than the substance and it goes into the colleges in spades. BTW, I am a school board member who votes 1:8 often on things.... But let me give you a perspective, one of the board members called Golf an "Essential Life Skill." Maybe, but how about balancing a checkbook... Ralph Brandt Communications Engineer HP Enterprise Services Telephone +1 717.506.0802 FAX +1 717.506.4358 Email Ralph.Brandt () pateam com 5095 Ritter Rd Mechanicsburg PA 17055 -----Original Message----- From: -Hammer- [mailto:bhmccie () gmail com] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:52 AM To: nanog () nanog org Subject: Re: Common operational misconceptions Let me simplify that. If you are over 35 you know how to troubleshoot. Yes, I'm going to get flamed. Yes, there are exceptions in both directions. -Hammer- "I was a normal American nerd" -Jack Herer On 2/17/2012 8:29 AM, Leo Bicknell wrote:
In a message written on Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 08:50:11PM -1000, Paul
Graydon wrote:
At the same time, it's shocking how many network people I come across with no real grasp of even what OSI means by each layer, even if it's only in theory. Just having a grasp of that makes all the world of difference when it comes to troubleshooting. Start at layer 1 and
work
upwards (unless you're able to make appropriate intuitive leaps.) Is
it
physically connected? Are the link lights flashing? Can traffic route
to
it, etc. etc.I wouldn't call it a "misconception", but I want to echo Paul's comment. I would venture over 90% of the engineers I work with have no idea how to troubleshoot properly. Thinking back to my own education, I don't recall anyone in highschool or college attempting to teach troubleshooting skills. Most classes teach you how to build things, not deal with them when they are broken. The basic skills are probably obvious to someone who might design course material if they sat down and thought about how to teach troubleshooting. However, there is one area that may not be obvious. There's also a group management problem. Many times troubleshooting is done with multiple folks on the phone (say, customer, ISP and vendor). Not only do you have to know how to troubleshoot, but how to get everyone on the same page so every possible cause isn't tested 3 times. I think all college level courses should include a "break/fix" exercise/module after learning how to build something, and much of
that
should be done in a group enviornment.
Current thread:
- Re: Common operational misconceptions, (continued)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions -Hammer- (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Jared Mauch (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions -Hammer- (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Charles Mills (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions John Kristoff (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Jack Bates (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Jack Bates (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Leo Bicknell (Feb 17)
- RE: Common operational misconceptions Brandt, Ralph (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions -Hammer- (Feb 17)
- RE: Common operational misconceptions Brandt, Ralph (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions -Hammer- (Feb 17)
- RE: Common operational misconceptions George Bonser (Feb 17)
- RE: Common operational misconceptions Mario Eirea (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Steve Clark (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Jack Bates (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Mike Lyon (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Mike Andrews (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Jay Ashworth (Feb 17)
- Re: Common operational misconceptions Scott Helms (Feb 17)
- RE: Common operational misconceptions Brandt, Ralph (Feb 17)