Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?)

[Fred Baker <fred () cisco com>]

On Jul 10, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> On 2011-07-10 17:56 , David Miller wrote:
> [..]
> > +1
> >
> > The lack of will on the part of the IETF to attract input from and involve operators in their processes (which I 
> > would posit is a critical element in the process).
>
> Ehmmmm ANYBODY, including you, can sign up to the IETF mailing lists and participate there, just like a couple of 
> folks from NANOG are already doing.
>
> You are on NANOG out of your own free will, the same applies to the IETF. If you don't participate here your voice is 
> not heard either, just
> like at the IETF.
>
> Peeking at the ipv6 () ietf org member list, I don't see your name there. You can signup here: 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6

Thanks, Jeroen.

For IPv6 functionality, I'd suggest ipv6 () ietf org (https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6). For IPv6 operational 
issues, I'd suggest v6ops () ietf org (https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops). For security-related issues, you 
might also look into opsec () ietf org (https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec).


On Jul 10, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> Number two: While anyone can participate, approaching IETF as an operator requires a rather thick skin, or, at least 
> it did the last couple of times I attempted to participate. I've watched a few times where operators were shouted 
> down by purists and religion over basic real-world operational concerns.

That goes both ways. I periodically see dismissive statements about the IETF on operational lists, and dismissive 
statements about operators on IETF lists. I would classify David's comment as "dismissive", the kind of comment that 
causes IETF folks to not participate in operational meetings or lists, and the kind of comment cited by operational 
folks such as you as reasons to leave IETF meetings and lists. Such comments tend to come from a small set of 
individuals on each side. If such comments bother you, feel free to block the in-duh-viduals that send them. 
Personally, I try to listen to them; they are often telling me something I need to hear but don't want to.