Re: BGP Failover Question

[Hammer <bhmccie () gmail com>]

Uncle!


 -Hammer-

"I was a normal American nerd."
-Jack Herer





On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Owen DeLong <owen () delong com> wrote:

>  On Feb 22, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Hammer wrote:
>
>  I agree. But swapping providers is not the default answer in some
> environments. I work in an enterprise with multiple GE circuits from
> multiple providers to the Internet. The lead time on calling up a different
> carrier and saying "I need a gigabit connection to the Internet" would
> probably be 90-120 days. And then you get to go thru the
> contracts/negotiations and MSAs. You don't just flip. In smaller operations
> I understand. But I was simply saying that it's not always that easy. If I
> went to my boss and said one of our carriers sucks and we should dump them
> he would just laugh and throw me out.
>
>
> That depends on where you are. If you have a router in one or more of the
> many "carrier hotels" around the world, you can usually order a new Gig-E
> cross-connect with service in less than a week. If you need to have a
> circuit engineered, then, 30-90 days is probably about right. If you need to
> have facilities installed to provide said circuit, it can be as much as 180
> days.
>
> However, I don't think the point was "disconnect them tomorrow". I think
> the point was "If the impact is that severe, the sooner you start the new
> provider process, the sooner you get relief."
>
>  1. What are the SLAs with the carrier in question? Do you have them
> clearly defined? Are they out of SLA? If so, what compensation is entitled
> based on violation of said SLA?
>
>
> 99.99% of all SLAs are a pittance of money refunded IF you jump through
> extreme hoops to collect. They are rarely sufficient to resolve
> or even compensate for outages.
>
>
> 2. What trending are you doing to document the failures in SLA of the
> carrier in question? Do we have a documented pattern of poor performence by
> using that trending?
>
> 3. What are our contractual or legal options based on items 1 and 2?
>
> 4. Don't forget about the Layer8 (political) factor. If your telco manager
> is buddies with the carrier then you have to double your documentation
> against them. Some companies spend tens of millions a month on circuits. You
> better be ready to justify yourself.
>
>
> Yeah, this is usually the biggest problem.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>  -Hammer-
>
> "I was a normal American nerd."
> -Jack Herer
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Owen DeLong <owen () delong com> wrote:
>
> > Assuming that he has provider independent space (why run full BGP feeds if
> > you
> > are not multihomed?), then, actually it's about on par and less disruptive
> > in
> > general. Add new provider, wait a  day or two, then disconnect old
> > provider.
> >
> > If he's using provider assigned space, then, the big hurdle is switching
> > to provider
> > independent (requires a renumber), but, that's a good idea for a variety
> > of reasons.
> >
> > I would hardly call the type and frequency of outages described a "whim"
> > when
> > using that as a reason to change providers. Sounds like he is suffering
> > severe impact to his business.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> > On Feb 22, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Hammer wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not argueing that at all. But it wasn't relevent to the question at
> > > hand. And depending on the scale of your business dumping providers is
> > not
> > > something done on a whim. It's not like your fed up with DSL and want to
> > > convert to Cable.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Hammer-
> > >
> > > "I was a normal American nerd."
> > > -Jack Herer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Bret Clark <bclark () spectraaccess com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 02/22/2011 12:23 PM, Hammer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > As Max stated, you can set triggers based on thresholds that are
> > monitered
> > > > > via multiple methods in Cisco IOS. That way you could force the route
> > down
> > > > > dynamically. There's always a risk when letting the machines do the
> > > > > thinking
> > > > > but this would help in situations like this. Can't speak for other
> > vendors
> > > > > but I'm sure the features are similar.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well as someone else stated, if an upstream provider can't provide BGP
> > > > reliably then it's time to give them the boot. Once in a year, okay,
> > but
> > > > beyond that, then it's time to read riot act with that provider.
> > > > Bret