Re: RBL quandry - opinions hereby solicited

[Dean Anderson <dean () av8 com>]

Paul says his only requirement is that they stop when asked. Well, I
haven't seen any evidence that they won't or don't.  All I have heard is
that they make you choose between their email and their service, or no
email and no service.  That they don't change their business when someone
demands and still do business with that person is another matter.

It might be arguable about whether they can or should give their list to
someone else or who owns the list. But it not even questionable that they
can use it themselves to promote their own services.

Perhaps you are getting something from NSI that I'm not getting. I've
gotten advertisements on topics like how to do DNS, etc.  Things that NSI
might be able to train people on.  Things that registrants of domains might
need training on. 

I haven't gotten anything from NSI that isn't part of NSI's own business,
unless you count verisign stuff, which could possibly be outside, but it is
still certainly related to their business, and the business of those who
have domains registered with them. I actually haven't gotten any email from
NSI about verisign--Its all on their we page, I think. I haven't gotten any
spam from NSI about, oh, say, the latest porn site, or how to get rich
quick using chain letters.  I haven't heard that people who aren't
customers of NSI are getting unsolicited email from NSI.

But you are still missing the definition of spam: what is unsolicited
email. It is not "unsolicited" when you have a previously existing
relationship, especially a relationship that specifies that you agree to
give NSI your email address, and you agree with NSI that they can send you
email.

Furthermore, you can make NSI stop sending you email simply by not doing
business with them. You can register domains in other registries. NSI isn't
going out and buying email lists, and spraying email. They are sending to
their own customer list.

This is using the RBL to bully NSI.  Its not about spam.

                --Dean

At 05:07 PM 11/21/1998 -0500, Rich Sena wrote:
> Dean stop beeing a boob - it's spam - it's not hey glad your a customer
> hope all is well it's hey use us to register new domains - it's being
> generated to compete against other avenues of registration - lets call it
> what it is - if you like it great - give it a hug and kiss and give it a
> rest - the majority I would assume aren't real thrilled about it - and the
> whole speil about fake email addresses cuz folk don't want to give out
> theirs - is bullshit - the correct answer is "then you don't get a domain"
> drive through please.
>
> On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Dean Anderson wrote:
>
> > Not so. You can use another registry. .COM, .NET, and .ORG may be the most
> > popular, but they are not the only ones.  When you refuse to do business
> > with NSI, they don't send you email.  They don't get lists and send email
> > to random people.  If you don't agree to let NSI send you email, they won't
> > do business with you.   Everyone agreed to those terms. Can't come back and
> > change them later, because you don't like it.
> >
> > Personally, I don't see anything wrong with most of the mail I've gotten
> > from them.  Some of it a bit technically insulting, but that doesn't make
> > it totally unreasonable from an email ethics point of view. It certainly
> > doesn't qualify as spam, since it is in fact solicited.  You paid $100+ for
> > the privilege.
> >
> > Technically, they aren't broadcasting either. They are sending email to
> > their customers.  Not potential future customers. Existing customers.  They
> > didn't buy this list from somewhere. They asked for, and required customers
> > to give this information, and to give them permission to send email.
> >
> > You seem to be in a conflict with your own rules, since you have said that
> > you don't RBL companies that are using their own internal lists.  As I
> > thought, you aren't operating from some kind of moral or ethical principal,
> > you are just bullying others.  I just don't like that, whether you happen
> > to be right or not.
> >
> > > >   2] They are sending to folks that use the service.
> > >
> > > yes.  which is: everybody who has a domain in COM, NET, or ORG.
> >
> > Ahh, it has finally come to a confrontation with someone who quite possibly
> > speaks more authoritatively for everyone in those domains than you do.
> > This will be interesting, to say the least.
> >
> > I wonder if RBLing NetSol is cause for them to put vix.com on hold.  That
> > would be a hoot.  I suppose they actually could call you in breach of
> > contract for refusing to receive email, refund your money, and cancel your
> > domains.
> >
> >              --Dean
> >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >            Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
> >            LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> -- 
> I am nothing if not net-Q! - ras () poppa clubrich tiac net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
           Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
           LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++