Interesting People mailing list archives
Re Lauren's Blog: "Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet"
From: "Dave Farber" <farber () gmail com>
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 13:46:21 -0400
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Wendy M. Grossman" <wendyg () pelicancrossing net> Date: June 8, 2018 at 22:07:19 EDT To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] Lauren's Blog: "Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet" For IP if you wish: As an American living in London and a long-time reader of Lauren's mailing list, I find Lauren's frequent characterizations of the EU as worse than Russia or China bizarre. Yes, the European Commission will shortly vote on a set of copyright proposals we all dislike, but they don't have the final say. There will be further stages of trilogue between the European Parliament, the European Commission, and the Council of Europe to agree on the contents of the final directive. If Lauren cares so much about this, perhaps he could help activists such as the UK's Open Rights Group or any of the many other groups that are members of European Digital Rights to formulate and advocate for better alternatives rather than sitting in Californnia and childishly demanding that 28 countries and hundreds of millions of citizens of democratic countries be blocked off the internet because he doesn't like their laws. That truly *is* censorship. There is a helpful guide to the problems with the European Commission's copyright proposals and what to do about them here: https://www.communia-association.org/2018/01/08/seven-ways-save-eu-copyright-reform-effort-2018/ Lauren's other pet peeve, the "right to be forgotten" is far from perfect, but it *is* an attempt to redress the balance of power between the rights of an individual against the power of large corporations. It's remarkable that so many in the land of self-reinvention have so much trouble grasping this. Free speech is a fundamental human right in the EU, as is privacy as enshrined in data protection aw, and in right-to-be-forgotten cases the courts are asked to balance those two fundameental rights against each other. Isn't that what courts are for? I would have long ago emailed Lauren personally to say all this except that his server rejects email from my server... wgOn 2018-06-08 21:25, Dave Farber wrote: Begin forwarded message:*From:* Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com <mailto:lauren () vortex com>> *Date:* June 8, 2018 at 3:23:17 PM EDT *To:* nnsquad () nnsquad org <mailto:nnsquad () nnsquad org> *Subject:* *[ NNSquad ] Lauren's Blog: "Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet"* Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet https://lauren.vortex.com/2018/06/08/why-we-may-have-to-cut-europe-off-from-the-internet It's not a joke. It's no hyperbole. If the European Union continues its current course, the rest of the world may well have to consider how to effectively "cut off" Europe from the rest of the Internet -- to create an "Island Europe" in an Internet communications context. For those of us involved with the Net since its early origins, the specter of network fragmentation has long been an outcome that we've sorely hoped to avoid. But continuing EU actions could create an environment where mechanisms to tightly limit Europe's interactions with the rest of the global Internet may be necessary -- not imposed with pleasure, not with vindictiveness, but for the protection of free speech around the rest of the planet. The EU will later this month be voting on a nightmarish copyright control scheme that would impose requirements for real-time "copyright filtering" of virtually all content uploaded to major and many minor Internet sites, with no protections against trolling, and the certainty of inappropriately blocking vast quantities of public domain and other materials, with no real protections against errors and no effective avenues for appeals. Please see: "On June 20, an EU committee will vote on an apocalyptically stupid, internet-destroying copyright proposal that'll censor everything from Tinder profiles to Wikipedia" ( https://boingboing.net/2018/06/07/thanks-axel-voss.html ). Even if this specific horrific proposal is voted down, it's important to review how we came to this juncture, as the EU has increasingly accelerated its program to become the Internet's global censorship czar, in ways that even countries like China and Russia haven't attempted to date. As far back as 2012 and earlier, in "The 'Right to Be Forgotten': A Threat We Dare Not Forget" ( https://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000938.html ), I warned of the insidious nature of content censorship schemes flowing forth from Europe, and I've consistently warned that -- like the proverbial camel's nose under the tent -- Europe would never be satisfied with any concessions offered by Internet firms. Time has borne out my predictions. In ensuing years, the EU has expanded its demands until now it considers itself in key respects to be the global arbiter of what should or should not be seen by Internet users around the world. Like other of civilization's information control tyrants, a taste of censorship powers by the EU has inevitably led to utter censorship gluttony, and the sense that "we know best what those stupid little people should be allowed to see" is as old as human history, long predating modern communications systems. European citizens are of course free to elect whatever sorts of governments that they choose. If that choice is for information control tyrants whose pleasure is to victimize their own citizens, so be it. But if Europe continues to insist that its tyranny of censorship and information control must be honored by the rest of the world, then the rest of the world will be reluctantly forced to treat Europe as an Internet pariah, and use all possible technical means to isolate Europe in manners that best protect everyone else's freedom of Internet speech. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein (lauren () vortex com <mailto:lauren () vortex com>): https://www.vortex.com/lauren Lauren's Blog: https://lauren.vortex.com Google Issues Mailing List: https://vortex.com/google-issues Founder: Network Neutrality Squad: https://www.nnsquad.org PRIVACY Forum: https://www.vortex.com/privacy-info Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility: https://www.pfir.org/pfir-info Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Google+: https://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenweinstein Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 _______________________________________________ nnsquad mailing list https://lists.nnsquad.org/mailman/listinfo/nnsquadArchives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now> | Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?> Your Subscription | Unsubscribe Now <https://www.listbox.com/unsubscribe/?&&post_id=20180608162556:23E95DD6-6B5A-11E8-B7C4-CCB05EFCF31A> [Powered by Listbox] <http://www.listbox.com>-- www.pelicancrossing.net <-- all about me Twitter: @wendyg
------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=18849915 Unsubscribe Now: https://www.listbox.com/unsubscribe/?member_id=18849915&id_secret=18849915-a538de84&post_id=20180609134629:08044226-6C0D-11E8-9A4D-9E2FAC6B1406 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Current thread:
- Re Lauren's Blog: "Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet" Dave Farber (Jun 08)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re Lauren's Blog: "Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet" Dave Farber (Jun 09)
- Re Lauren's Blog: "Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet" Dave Farber (Jun 10)
- Re Lauren's Blog: "Why We May Have to Cut Europe Off from the Internet" Dave Farber (Jun 11)