Interesting People mailing list archives
Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned?
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:22:53 -0400
Begin forwarded message: From: "Ronald J Riley \(RJR Com\)" <rjr () rjriley com> Date: March 21, 2009 5:47:21 PM EDT To: <dave () farber net>Subject: RE: [IP] Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned?
"Rich Kulawiec's comments, while they point out flaws in our values forcompensating people, takes no consideration for the compensation of those who take risks to create wealth. Without these "doofuses", we would all be
much poorer."The problem is that I doubt that anyone in the insurance industry and dam few in the banking industry does anything to create new wealth. From what I
have seen, they are vultures who extract huge profits and then bail outleaving the poor slobs who dealt with them to implode. I think that these
two industries do more to destroy new wealth creation then they do to facilitate it. "We've tried organizing societies without a profit motive and it just doesn't work, as it is against human nature."I agree completely, that for all its flaws that capitalism does the best job
of motivating people. But the reality is that most capitalists are parasites riding the real creator's coattails. I do know a bit about this, because I am a moderately successful inventor-entrepreneur myself and I work with inventors daily who are actually creating new wealth. I also spend an inordinate amount of time fighting the agenda of corporate parasites. They not only do nothing to create new wealth, but actually destroy those who are doing so. Ronald J. Riley, Speaking only on my own behalf. Affiliations: President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR act PIAUSA.org Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org President - Alliance for American InnovationCaretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder
Paul Heckel Washington, DC Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST. -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:58 PM To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? "takes no consideration for the compensation of those who take risks to create wealth."/ An examination of Ennron and other such shows that all to often the gamblers bet with other peoples money, collect the short term benefits in commissions and bonuses and then run. Whem the bets are wrong -- they are far gone djf Begin forwarded message: From: "Mac McKnight" <dmcknight15 () comcast net> Date: March 21, 2009 12:19:09 AM EDT To: <dave () farber net> Subject: RE: [IP] Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? Reply-To: <dmcknight15 () comcast net> There is a lot of heat and noise surrounding this issue, but very little light or understanding of the facts involved. It was nice to see the quotes from Tribe, as that helped dispel some of the uninformed rantings about the constitutionality of the law. AIG is a very large corporation. Essentially, a small group in London persuaded upper management to engage in insuring against credit defaults without hedging against the risk. They were greedy and didn't understand the risks involved and our government failed in its responsibility to properly regulate them. But to punish all of the employees for the sins of a few would surely cause the taxpayers to lose most of their investment in the company, not just a few million. Treating all of the employees as culpable will simply encourage the high producers to leave for greener pastures, leaving the company a husk. This is not a fantasy, but a very real risk. The top financial firms are always looking for top talent. Keep in mind that the most valuable assets of this company are its employees. I'm not trying to defend the bonuses themselves. I personally think much of them are excessive. But that is a broader issue, concerning what is excessive compensation for our society as a whole. Rich Kulawiec's comments, while they point out flaws in our values for compensating people, takes no consideration for the compensation of those who take risks to create wealth. Without these "doofuses", we would all be much poorer. We've tried organizing societies without a profit motive and it just doesn't work, as it is against human nature. The key here is proper regulation. The strict free market advocates of the Bush administration have caused us tremendous pain. We can't place such tremendous responsibility for the wealth and well-being of our country in the hands of such organizations with little or no oversight, especially if we view them as "too big to fail." On the other hand, policies that ignore the profit motive in hopes of an egalitarian society where we all work for the common good are pie in the sky. We are a long way from applying the ideals of open source programming to our society as a whole. It would be quite entertaining watching Dodd, Geithner and others dance round and point fingers, if it weren't so depressing to see such lack of leadership. We are witnessing cynical Washington politicians whip up a populist frenzy, only to their horror seeing it rebound against them. It reminds me of the French Revolution, when many revolutionaries were themselves beheaded when the revolution spun out of control. DeLoss McKnight -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:57 PM To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? Begin forwarded message: From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk () gsp org> Date: March 20, 2009 1:36:50 PM EDT To: David Farber <dave () farber net> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? There is a larger and more long-term issue here. Is anybody actually worth a million dollars (to pick an arbitrary and round number) a year -- to society-at-large? Dr. Ben Carson, maybe. Stephen Hawking, certainly. And similar. But some doofus who merely shuffles money around? I think not. (Doubly so, some doofus who does it *very badly* and manages to lose most of it.) Neither any movie star, nor athlete, nor celebrity, nor CEO. NONE of these people are actually doing anything which provides value to society in a quantity sufficient to justify such an enormous wage. On the other hand, it's not difficult to think of any number of professions where undercompensation is severe and chronic: "teaching" is merely one of the more obvious examples. And yet, the teachers working away today in schools across the country are doing vastly most valuable work than anyone on Wall Street. How many teachers could we give a 25% raise to just using the money handed out in bonuses by AIG? We, as a society, really need to readjust our concept of the value of work. We have lavishly rewarded the selfish while nearly ignoring those who sacrifice much for the common good. And those selfish few have "rewarded" us by destroying our economy, costing millions of people their jobs and their homes and their peace of mind, and diverting our national attention and resources from our many other pressing problems. We should return the favor -- showing them exactly the same respect, mercy, generosity and compassion that they've shown us...and no more. ---Rsk ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release Date: 3/20/2009 6:59 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release Date: 3/20/2009 6:59 AM ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Current thread:
- Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 19)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 19)
- Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 19)
- Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 19)
- Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 20)
- Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 20)
- Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 21)
- Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 21)
- Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 21)
- Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 22)
- Re: Congress' reaction to AIG bonuses -- am I the only one concerned? David Farber (Mar 22)