Interesting People mailing list archives
on the financial meltdown
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:14:52 -0400
Since this is so long Mark's reply Mark is an OLD , in time not age, Wall Streeter who was involved with taking Apple public.
Dave Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:00:36 -0400 From: Mark Stahlman<newmedia () aol com> Subject: Re: any comment on this? Dave: Andrew is much better on telecom! <g>Clearly "stabilizing" home prices is very important. In addition, giving those people who are "under-water" on real estate need time to let all this happen. This is pretty well known and in the headlines.
No one -- including the US Treasury -- actually knows what they will do with the $700B. That's one of the reasons why it was so hard to pass in Congress.
We are in a FINANCIAL crisis and will probably be in one for 6-12 months. However, Andrew has failed to illustrate what the ECONOMIC consequences are likely to be.
The "problem" is the old rules are gone and new ones haven't been made up yet. So lots of people are on the sidelines waiting to see what the new rules are going to be.
What I'm most interested in is the *permanent* changes in consumer behavior that this will provoke and how that will change the direction of the global economy. Yes, it's way too soon to know.
Mark Begin forwarded message: From: odlyzko () dtc umn edu (Andrew Odlyzko) Date: October 10, 2008 11:24:50 AM PDT To: dewayne () warpspeed com Subject: on the financial meltdown Here is a little economic model that may shed some light on what's happening to the financial system, why Paulson's recent $700 billion plan may very well be the wrong solution, and why the whole problem is very hard to solve. Suppose your Aunt Millie and her husband retired two years ago from their jobs in Palo Alto, and decided to move back to their native Omaha. They sold their little shack, bought for $50,000 many decades ago, for $1 million (two years ago being the peak of the real estate market, and Palo Alto shacks being pretty pricey even now). Suppose the mortgage had been paid off a long time ago, so she and her husband owned the house outright. Now by traditional measures (prices compared to household incomes, say) that Palo Alto shack might have been worth $500,000 (as Palo Alto is a desirable place to live, and there is very little land that can be developed in the vicinity). But with the runup in real estate prices, it was valued at $1 million two years ago, and she got that price. After paying realtor's commission, capital gains taxes (the home capital gains exclusion only covers $500,000 per couple), etc., they might be left with $800,000, say, of which they use $300,000 to buy a big house in Omaha, and put the remaining $500,000 into a CD in a national Bank Too Big to Fail (BTBTF). Note that realtors and other agents got a large chunk, say $100,000 (just to keep to round numbers), and the governments did not do too badly either. Now further let's suppose that your Cousin Jim, not knowing of the relationship to your Aunt Millie, was the person who sold the Omaha house to Aunt Millie, and bought her house in Palo Alto, not knowing of the relationship, and not knowing he was dealing with the same person in both cases. Say he also owned his Omaha house outright, and of the $300,000 he got, after paying various fees, commissions, moving expenses, etc., (and this is important, as the real estate bubble enriched many people, not just the homeowners) had $250,000 left, of which he spent $50,000 on some new furniture, and put $200,000 down on that $1 million shack of Aunt Millie's in Palo Alto. The remaining $800,000 came from a mortgage from the Bank Too Big to Fail (BTBTF), the bank that has Aunt Millie's $500,000. Now putting 20% down was absurdly conservative at the peak of the real estate bubble two years ago, but it helps make the model more realistic, in that BTBTF would have had other mortgages as well, some from years ago, which supposedly have a lot of homeowner equity in them. Now the Bank Too Big to Fail (BTBTF) did not keep that $800,000 mortgate of Cousin Jim. It sliced and diced it, and sold it off (after mixing it up with other mortgages) to other institutions. Say there were 4 tranches into which Cousin Jim's mortgage was divided, each for a nominal $200,000, with slice A having first claim on any mortgage payments from Cousin Jim (or from auctioning Cousin Jim's Palo Alto shack if it goes into foreclosure), slice B having second claim, etc. (This is not a correct representation, that's not how mortgages were packaged, but it has the key elements of that wonderful "distribution of risks to parties able to bear it, and enabling home ownership" machinery that was operating, so let's go with it.) And then those 4 tranches of Cousin Jim's mortgage went on some wonderful trips, being further sliced and diced, having their grades improved by credit rating agencies, etc. And suppose that by some miracle all the trenches ended up with BTBTF. But before they came back, perhaps $100,000 had been extracted from them to pay the mortgage brokers, lawyers, Wall Street investment banks, and of course the management of BTBTF, which showed such great brilliance in minimizing risks and maximizing profits for BTBTF's shareholders. So now BTBTF has again the entire mortgage for $800,000 on Cousin Jim's house, but it is probably valued on its books at $900,000, when you get down to it and examine all the financial details. Now suppose that the Bank Too Big to Fail (BTBTF) has on its books just that mortgage to Cousin Jim, valued at $900,000, and standard commercial loans for $1,100,000 to various companies, say a local car dealer, restaurant, etc.. (Yes, $2 million is not enough to make a bank too big to fail, it's not even enough to pay for legal fees to establish a bank, but I am just trying to keep things simple, BTBTF would have closer to $1 trillion on its books, but then Cousin Jim's mortgage would be swamped by all the other accounts.) And suppose that BTBTF has $200,000 in capital, and $1,800,000 in deposits, Aunt Millie's CD for $500,000 included. By conventional banking standards, that is extremely conservative, 10% capital is just great. But these are not the usual times. Real estate prices have come down quite a lot. Say they are down by 20% in Palo Alto. (I have no idea of what the actual decline has been in Palo Alto.) But that is just what realtors say, the market is pretty much frozen, and if Cousin Jim had to sell his home today, he might have to settle for just $600,000 in a quick sale. And prices are going further down. So for the moment Cousin Jim is still paying his mortgage. He has his job (at least for the moment), and he has hopes that the value of his shack will go back up to to $1 million, or at least not go down below $800,000. But if it does go down further, and he is rational, he will hand the keys over to the bank. And then the bank might have to sell Cousin Jim's shack for $600,000, which will leave it with a loss of at least $200,000, and more likely $300,000, if proper accounting is applied to all the financial maneuvers that had taken place. That will wipe out its capital, and possibly more. But what if the price the bank can get is even lower? Until recently, the actions of government agencies, both in the U.S. and other countries, seemed to be based on the assumption that there would be only a modest decline in housing prices, and so all they had to do was keep people from panicking. If Palo Alto housing prices only go down 20% from their peak, Cousin Jim will keep paying his mortgage. Perhaps a few of his neighbors who got 100% mortgages with montly payments that have just reset to levels they can't afford will walk away, but if the effect is small (say BTBTF has only 10% of one of those mortgages, and the total loss on that mortgage is going to be $250,000, then BTBTF will lose $25,000, which is a painful hit to its capital, but not fatal) then nothing serious will happen. But now the general impression in the markets seems to be that the housing price declines are going to be more serious. Suppose that prices go down to levels consistent with historical ratios of house prices to incomes. (And they could go down below that, of course, historically this ratio has oscillated. Note that the situation is worse in many countries than in the U.S., since those countries, including Ireland, had a more severe housing inflation than the U.S. did. The crisis started in the U.S., but that could be the result of several factors such as (i) our investment banks being the most leveraged, and (ii) our system being the most transparent.) What would that mean? Over in Omaha, Aunt Millie and her husband might see the value of their $300,000 home go down to $200,000. (Inflation was generally lower in the Mid-West than in California.) That is not that much of a problem, since they own that house outright. They are probably scared about that $500,000 CD at BTBTF, since the amount is over the limit insured by the feds. In practice, it seems pretty clear that the feds will cover them for the entire amount, as several countries have moved to do. But in the meantime, they are probably more than a little scared, and less willing to spend, helping push the economy deeper into a recession. But in Palo Alto, if the price of Cousin Jim's shack goes back to the historical trend of $500,000, he will hand the keys to the bank, sooner or later. (Sooner if the recession kills his job.) So where does that leave BTBTF? If it gets Cousin Jim's shack and has to sell it, it will likely get only around $400,000 for it. That means BTBTF is effectively bankrupt, since it has only $200,000 in capital, and the loss on Cousin Jim's mortgage will be $400,000 or $500,000. Unless Paulson, using taxpayer money, overpays by an absurd amount, there is no way that BTBTF can break even. Yes, if the free-marketer Paulson decides, in his wisdom, that the free market is grossly incorrect, and that the Palo Alto shack is going to be worth $1 million in a couple of years, he might pay $800,000 for the mortgage on Cousin Jim's shack, arrange for it to be rented, and sell it at the proper time for a profit for taxpayers, and great glory for himself. But any realistic price he pays for Cousin Jim's mortgage, or pieces of it, will still leave BTBTF under water. There is no way that BTBTF management can make the bank healthy enough, unless either (i) real estate prices recover (which is not absurd, rapid inflation, something that "helicopter Ben" Bernanke had talked about in the past, might be resorted to by the government), or (ii) BTBTF management take wild chances, like taking all the cash in the till and wagering it on a roll of the roulette wheel in Las Vegas (basically what the S&L's did in the 1980s, when they were in a similar situation, and put lots of money into crazily speculative investments). Putting actual capital into banks (basically what Swedes did in the early 1990s, and the British are doing now) seems to be the only way to get the financial system moving. That way management (and unfortunately, since we can't start from scratch, it means pretty much the same management that got our financial system into the current mess) will have incentives to loan money in the traditional ways, that sustain the normal functioning of the economy, and not wager it in a casino. But the amount of money that would need to be put into banks for this to work will have to be huge. It would basically have to be enough to cover all the losses on all the loans they have made (which we can't estimate precisely, since we don't know how bad the recession will be, and how many other bombs are going to explode. This is in a way not all that dissimilar from Paulson paying absurdly high price for Cousin Jim's mortgage, but it would give taxpayers a better chance to recover their money, and provide better incentives for bank managers to behave prudently, yet perform their key function in the economy. Note that the fundamental problem we face is less the $200,000 that the mortgage brokers, lawyers, Wall Street investment banks, and management of BTBTF got out of the Aunt Millie and Cousin Jim transactions. It is rather the $500,000 that Aunt Millie and her husband got for their shack above what the likely long-term value of that shack is. They did not do anything wrong, all their actions were perfectly legal and moral. But they were the beneficiaries of the real estate bubble, and at least in the short run they are likely to escape unscathed, and without any blame attached. In the long run, of course, they will have to help pay for the cleanup, either through higher taxes, or through inflation. Sorry this is so long, but it seemed about the shortest model that, even though grossly simplified, still showed what seem the essential features of our current crisis. 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