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Re: Let's play "Deconstruct the media!" -- America's new subprime shanty-towns
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:29:09 -0700
________________________________________ From: Brock N Meeks [bmeeks () cox net] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:19 PM To: Roger Bohn Cc: David Farber; ip Subject: Re: [IP] Let's play "Deconstruct the media!" -- America's new subprime shanty-towns On Mar 19, 2008, at 11:27 AM, Roger Bohn wrote:
Brock N. Meeks writes:Someone below wonders why he "found out about this [story] from the BCC and not US media?" Here's one possible answer: it's a ginned up report by a clueless BBC reporter, trying to make news from nothing.I can't let this go by; statements like this have become a new method of right-wing denial. Meeks has nothing but speculation here, but by starting from the assumption that BBC reporters and editors are incompetent, he can justify any speculation he wants.
"Right wing denial"?? Surely, sir, you jest! I've been called a lot of things (some of them I even deserved) but "right wing"? Good god, man, you nearly gave me a stroke! I'm not just flinging words into the ether here. My 20-plus years as a reporter gives me, I would speculate, some standing to jab my BBC brethren with a verbal stick. And I didn't JUST start with an assumption, I backed it up, with with examples.
The lack of grounding in Meek's speculation is exemplified by the following:The last interview is with a guy that says he sold his house "for a lot less than I paid for it." But he didn't take a bath on it, or so it seems, because he tells the reporter that after the sale, "I settled all my bills and now I'm homeless." You don't "settle all your bills" if don't haveequity in the house.This is ignorant of arithmetic and of real estate. One can be both underwater and still have positive equity when you sell; the difference is your original down payment. And, given that selling fees are ~8 percent (all costs, not just commissions), even selling a house for your original price means taking a significant bath.
OK, let's play with your math book. Let's assume it played out as you say; I'll stipulate to your (speculated) version of the story, because, you know, neither of us knows because the original reporting <cough> just doesn't give us any clue. So, the sale plays out as you say, that the guy does, indeed, "take a bath" on the sale and walks away with equity. What then? He obviously has money left to settle all his bills and after that, poof.. he's homeless? Your speculation, er, version of the story does no more to lend credence to the original report than my speculation, er, version of the story. Where in the interview is there ANY evidence that this guy is victim of the sub-prime mess? If he had a job and simply couldn't make the payments because of predatory sub-prime loan practices, why does he suddenly not have a job? He suddenly has no visible means of support? Well, ANYONE without the ability to pay for their mortgage is going to end up on the street. Well, there I go, practicing sloppy commentary. I shouldn't use "anyone," in that previous sentence. Some people, staring into the pending abyss of potential foreclosure, might put their house on the market, even if they have to take a bath on it, so they can strip out what equity they might have. Then take the money, regroup and give it another go. But none of that last example is tied to the sub-prime mess. I know of two families in the high priced county of Fairfax, VA, where I Iive, that had to do just that. No sub-prime mess there; in both cases the jobs evaporated and they couldn't make mortgage payments they had easily handled in in previous years. Rather than let the house lapse into foreclosure, they rush the house to market, took a beating on the price, but walked away with enough of a grubstake to start over, in a rental, in another county.
The signature case of this kind of attack was the recent "Swift- boating of Graeme Frost" http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1670210,00.html , a 12 year old who publicly said that a subsidized health insurance program helped him recover from a major auto crash. He and his family were publicly attacked by Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Congressional Republicans, and other bloggers, who produced a lot of speculation, subsequently debunked, that his family was actually wealthy.
I despise both Rush and Malkin; trying to link my comments with their ilk is laughable.
In recessions, people suffer. Bad policies, eg the recent revision of the bankruptcy bills at the behest of credit card companies, lead to more suffering. You may think there are good reasons for this state of affairs, but don't deny that it happens, and don't expect IP readers to be impressed by "Ivory Tower" speculation about the facts of a particular case.
Ke-rist, Robert. You didn't read my comment very closely, you just got worked up (sorry, that's me speculating) and fired away with your keyboard. I specifically said in my original comment (because I KNEW someone out there in IP land would just see red and not pay close attention) that I was making light of anyone's plight! I am well aware that recession creates dire circumstances -- you get no debate from me. The sub-prime fiasco is just that, a fiasco and the financial dominos now falling because of it are tragic. I agree to all of that. And if you can show me where I "deny that it happens," and by "it" I assume you're talking about people getting into tough spots, then I'll pay you $100. But I never did. I don't even deny that there might be tent cities, plural, springing up. But to blithely tie all that to the sub-prime mess is just not responsible journalism. If the reporter had chronicled a few different tent cities, in a few different metropolitan areas, it would have held more credence to me.
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Current thread:
- Let's play "Deconstruct the media!" -- America's new subprime shanty-towns David Farber (Mar 19)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Let's play "Deconstruct the media!" -- America's new subprime shanty-towns David Farber (Mar 19)
- Re: Let's play "Deconstruct the media!" -- America's new subprime shanty-towns David Farber (Mar 19)
- Re: Let's play "Deconstruct the media!" -- America's new subprime shanty-towns David Farber (Mar 19)