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more on One DC-area pilot on air vs. ground vulnerabilities
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:33:22 -0400
Begin forwarded message: From: Mary Shaw <mary.shaw () gmail com> Date: May 12, 2005 2:30:24 PM EDT To: dave () farber netSubject: Re: [IP] more on One DC-area pilot on air vs. ground vulnerabilities
Reply-To: Mary Shaw <mary.shaw () gmail com>Does everyone understand what a Cessna 150 is? It weighs 1100 pounds empty (that's pounds, not tons), its maximum gross weight is 1600 pounds.
That gives it a load-carrying capacity of 500 pounds. That's total people and all the stuff, including the gas to fly the airplane! The fuel tank holds 22.5 gallons, for 135 pounds, and it holds 6.5 quarts of oil for another 12 pounds. A standard person is 170lb, so with a pilot, full gas tank and enough oil that the engine won't sieze up before you get to your target you can carry less than 200 pounds of anything else menacing.
I've flown these things. You can fly them over gross weight, but not by much if you actually want to get off the ground.
Compare this to a Chevy Suburban, with an 8600 lb GVWR, 2800 lb payload, and a 37-gallon fuel capacity.
The Suburban is almost 6 times as heavy at max weight, has almost 6 times the payload, and could carry almost two fully-loaded Cessna 150s if you could fit them inside.
That Cessna 150 should be off in its hanger snickering quitely about scaring an entire city.
Mary On 5/12/05, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com > Date: May 11, 2005 11:40:09 PM EDT To: politech () politechbot com Subject: [Politech] One DC-area pilot on air vs. ground vulnerabilities [Identifying info snipped. Received this too late for the earlier roundup. --Declan] --- I like the way you think! I think it is widely accepted, but not widely understood, that freedom was the real target of the 9/11 conspirators. Unfortunately, it is STILL under attack...from within... which is also exactly what was hoped. If you missed this from a few weeks ago, here is the headline published in the UK regarding the most recent FRZ incident prior to today. Incoming cloud forces Bush into safe bunker I still have hope that there are those who will look at this incident today as evidence that the currect security construct is flawed and that expanding its reach through the air IS the wrong response. The security apparatus continues to react to under the guise of perceived terrorism with consideration for only select consequences. In my view, until every building in DC with a parking garage has a "SUV Restricted Zone" (an SRZ), or only commercial buses with pre-boarding security screening services and codeword access can drive people in and out of DC, I question the security restrictions currently imposed on access to the NATIONAL Airspace System within ~30 miles of DCA. (BTW, I don't want surface movement restrictions to happen either - I also oppose the closing of PA Ave.) Instead, there is a foolish mis-perception generally that weapons delivered by air are of the highest and only serious threat. All other threats are assumed to be nearly zero. It is unfathomable to me that the current threat mitigations are assumed and perceived to be adequate. Moreover, these perceptions and assumptions are being perpetuated by the "Security Apparatzi" instead of systematically challenged - which satisfies my definition of group think. The result is called a "false sense of security." Coincidentally, I saw NBC4 DC's report describing the US Capitol train tunnel vulnerability. If anyone needs a map, you can download it from the news site. Here is an excerpt from http://www.nbc4.com/news/4471435/detail.html : "It's an important link. All southbound Amtrak trains go through the tunnel, as do commuter trains. The tunnel passes under and near some of Washington's iconic Capitol Hill buildings, including the Supreme Court the Capitol itself. An explosion below could shake the center of government." Do I need to ask if anybody calculated the payload capacity of an entire train lately? While the consequences of another terrorist attack on DC are arguably unquantifiable, I cannot see that the method of delivery will matter or that another attack will be total in its success. The current security infrastructure for airborne threats comes at the equally unquantifiable expense to liberty, and the considerable expenses of such general disruption and allocated security resources. These are the real consequences; not the specific well-being of any ONE person. If someone walks down the street with a gun visible and holstered, should they be immediately arrested and questioned? Well, if you drive a white van or fly a plane near DC on some days, the answer is becoming... yes. The proof for this argument just came over the wire: Pilots Responsible For Capital Scare Won't Be Charged This is exactly the evidence of "free society" hypocrisy that terrorists cherish, and provides additional fuel for their recruitment efforts. _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh ( http://www.mccullagh.org/) ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as mary.shaw () gmail com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ipArchives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting- people/
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