Interesting People mailing list archives
more on Baghdad in your Backyard
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 10:59:29 -0500
Begin forwarded message: From: Brock Meeks <Brock.Meeks () msnbc com> Date: December 9, 2005 10:41:14 AM EST To: dave () farber net Cc: sparehed () gmail com Subject: RE: [IP] more on Baghdad in your Backyard Thanks, Wim, for those comments. I have four boys myself, three of them now grown. And we went the "no guns" route, too, only to watch them use sticks or pieces of plastic as improvised weapons. And I'd also like to answer people publicly that might have a notion I'm some "anti-gun" zealot (advocate, yes, zealot, no). I grew up with guns. My father was an avid hunter and as such, introduced his boys to his passion. But before we were allowed to take one step into a field with a shotgun, we had to take an NRA approved gun safety course. And I loved hunting with my dad. Much later, when I went into the military, I qualified as an expert marksman with the M-16. I do not hunt today; I don't own a handgun, rifle or shotgun. But I believe it does no harm to teach kids -- of an appropriate age--how to safely handle guns in a supervised environment. -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 09:23 To: ip () v2 listbox com Subject: [IP] more on Baghdad in your Backyard Begin forwarded message: From: Wim Lockefeer <sparehed () gmail com> Date: December 9, 2005 2:54:56 AM EST To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] more on Baghdad in your Backyard Brock - I know this sounds like a "me to"-post, something that I'm always trying to avoid, but still - I can't help but agree with you. I have two small kids of my own, both boys, and I know from experience that they are unstoppably drawn towards fighting and weapons, and guns in particular. After seeing them devising their own guns from pieces of wood and plastic, I've given up my original stance of never allowing any toy guns in the house. Now we have some squirt guns lying around and a few lightsabres. Still, i've only changed my attitude towards this because it seemed inevitable, and children need to learn to deal with violent behavior. They need to discover that dealmaking is not straightforward ("Bang, you're dead" - "No, I'm not"), and that fighting is not a way of solving a problem. The things I see on the video, however, are way past that. They show that automatic firearms are cool, virtually harmless and acceptable. They are not. As any engineer in the arms industry will tell you - a gun is made for killing. w/ 2005/12/9, David Farber <dave () farber net>: Begin forwarded message: From: Brock Meeks <Brock.Meeks () msnbc com > Date: December 8, 2005 11:44:24 PM EST To: Zachariah Mully <zmully () smartbrief com>, dave () farber net Subject: RE: [IP] Baghdad in your Backyard Thanks, Z, for that splendid and detailed comment. Truely an eye- opener. It still astounds me; the allure of such a hobby is lost on me. Furthermore, while I can grok how some adults might enjoy playing with such toys, the children seen (and heard in the background) have no business, in my opinion, firing these weapons. But that's just my opinion. -----Original Message----- From: Zachariah Mully [mailto: zmully () smartbrief com] Sent: Thu 12/8/2005 9:36 PM To: dave () farber net; Brock Meeks Subject: Re: [IP] Baghdad in your Backyard David Farber wrote:
Begin forwarded message: From: Brock Meeks <Brock.Meeks () msnbc com> Date: December 8, 2005 6:58:57 PM EST To: dave () farber net Subject: Baghdad in your Backyard Am I just getting too old? This clip seems wrong to me on so many levels... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5854686068870249151
Brock- I'm sure you'll get a lot of email about this post, but I figured having attended and participated at several events such as the one in the video, I could offer you some insight into them and Title II firearms. These machine gun shoots have probably been going on since the Gun Control Act of 1968, but only now have others outside the community discovered them. Title II/Class 3 weapons are basically full auto machine guns, and a subset of other firearms, such as shotguns w/OAL less than 26" (see http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Sec.%205845 for detailed definitions). Many states prohibit the possession of such weapons, other states require often lengthy permitting processes (try 1.5 years in Mass), but regardless, you must purchase the weapon from a federally licensed Class 3 dealer, pay various transfer taxes (usually multiples of $200) and register the weapon with the ATF. So once you've gone through the trouble of securing one of these at considerable expense (the cheapest are still usually several thousands of dollars) and after much filing of paperwork, the dilemma is where to shoot it? These are *not* the guns you hunt deer with, or rob your 7-11 with, regardless of what the Bradys might like you to think (I'm curious, I wonder if anybody has a statistic for the number of crimes committed with a *registered* Title II weapon). Most are probably 60-70 years old, and might have seen service in several wars, not to mention being exceedingly rare, cantankerous and hellishly expensive to maintain and shoot. And most gun clubs prohibit their use, not mention discharging one in your backyard usually results in a neighbor calling the cops. So what happens when you've got one, spent tens of thousands of dollars on parts kits, loaders, ammo, and new shocks for your truck to carry it all? Well, like any group of enthuasists, they like to get together to show off their stuff, enjoy each others company and enjoy their hobby. If this means pounding a hillside in Bushleague, NH, ID or wherever with hundreds of thousands of rounds, then so be it. Getting to these events is not easy either, transporting these weapons across state lines is illegal without first obtaining permission from the government requiring you file your travel plans several months in advance. If there is ever an event held close to you, I'd recommend you go to it, every one I've been to has been professionally, safely and exceedingly well run and managed, and the amount of concentrated firepower is truly awesome. And completely legal. Brgds, Z Gunless in DC ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as wim.lockefeer () gmail com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting- people/ ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as brock.meeks () msnbc com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as lists-ip () insecure org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
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