Re: Apparently Milgram is still right

["Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb () byrneit net>]

Apparently my attempt at wry humor was futile.

Precisely because, under whatever your definition of "torture" is, the
information extracted due to extremis is unreliable, and the moral
hazard of doing so so great, anything that involves "torture" is a
violation of ethics, even military ones.

Make me listen to Barney for hours, and I'm likely to tell you the sky
is purple.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Eckelberry [mailto:AlexE () sunbelt-software com]
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:09 PM
> To: Tomas L. Byrnes; Gadi Evron; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon &
> Hannah
> Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> Subject: RE: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
>
> Respectfully, that's quite different.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tomas L. Byrnes [mailto:tomb () byrneit net]
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:07 PM
> To: Alex Eckelberry; Gadi Evron; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon &
> Hannah
> Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> Subject: RE: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
>
> I think it depends on what you classify as torture. Apparently, this
now
> includes what the parents of most teenagers endure nightly.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/19/usa.guantanamo
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alex Eckelberry [mailto:AlexE () sunbelt-software com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:58 PM
> > To: Tomas L. Byrnes; Gadi Evron; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon &
> > Hannah
> > Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> > Subject: RE: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
> >
> > True, and there is a point of ethics vs. morals.  But in the end,
> > there's a line that, IMHO, shouldn't be crossed.
> >
> > Besides, at a purely ethical level, torture is a low-quality
> > interrogation technique.  It's overrated in its effectiveness, and
> > creates boomerang effects which don't benefit an overall cause.
> >
> > Nevertheless, even arguing torture at a logical level is difficult for
> > me.  It's just reprehensible, not because of some pacificist ideology:
> > Because beating the living shit out of someone for information brings
> us
> > to the level of animals, and that's what we've been trying to evolve
> > from for a very long time.
> >
> > Something Matthew Alexander spoke and wrote of recently:
> >
> > http://snipurl.com/8wosv
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org]
> > On Behalf Of Tomas L. Byrnes
> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:19 PM
> > To: Gadi Evron; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> > Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> > Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
> >
> > I guess it depends on who you think you owe an ethical duty to,
doesn't
> > it.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org
[mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org]
> > > On Behalf Of Gadi Evron
> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:11 PM
> > > To: Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> > > Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> > > Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
> > >
> > > On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> > wrote:
> > > > People are still willing to torture people, when told to do so by
an
> > > authority.
> > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/2/hi/health/7791278.stm
> > > >
> > > > This may explain some recent happenings, but it is still
disturbing,
> > > nonetheless.
> > > > We in infosec, and members of society as a whole, have to push
> harder
> > > on the
> > > > ethics front.
> > >
> > > What does this have to do with ethics?
> > > It's a trick question, think before answering. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > > ======================  (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer)
> > > > rslade () vcn bc ca     slade () victoria tc ca
> > rslade () computercrime org
> > > > This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I
> have
> > > > set before you life and death, blessings and curses.  Now
> > > > choose life....                                  - Deuteronomy
30:19
> > > > victoria.tc.ca/techrev/rms.htm
> > > blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/author/p1/
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> >
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