Re: wow - is a "shadow" politician still a politician?

["Brian Loe" <knobdy () gmail com>]

On 8/28/07, rms () computerbytesman com <rms () computerbytesman com> wrote:
> Let me re-ask a more specific security question:  How many more guns are
> going to be needed in private hands in order to reduce the murder rate in
> the U.S from its current level of ~5.5 murders per 100,000 people to the
> U.K. murder rate of ~1.6 murders per 100,000 people?
>
> Richard

Okay, let me restate the obvious, in most cases the two things (guns
and murders) do not correlate. I'll TRY to explain this, but it will
take an open mind to understand, not because you have to take a leap
of faith to "get it" but because if you're already a gun-hater you
simply won't believe the common sense behind it, just like you
wouldn't believe any facts that might back it up:

The highest murder rates in the United States are in those cities
where firearms, and specifically handguns, are banned. Therefore,
people who obey the law are not able to defend themselves. Also in
those cities there are large numbers of gangs, poor people and
illegals. Therefore, most of the murder rate is made up of
bad-guy-on-bad-guy murders who have no issues with breaking the law
and possessing firearms. The gun ownership rate in these cities is
virtually ALL criminal.

Further, to back up the argument that there really isn't any
correlation here, most privately held guns are not defensive weapons
but hunting and sport firearms. Sure, they can be used for self
defense but those who own them do not have that mindset (I've never
heard of a bad guy even being threatened by a 30 thousand dollar
shotgun). AND, those who do own hunting arms are likely to own several
of them. My step dad, for instance, was an avid hunter. He owned 3 or
4 rifles for the different game he hunted as well as several shotguns
for the birds he hunted. So he alone had somewhere close to 10 guns. I
have several friends who own over 20 guns. I currently own 8 guns.
Virtually none of these guns were bought for self-defense or used in
that manner (2 of mine are hunting guns, 3 are target guns, 1 is just
hella fun to shoot). So if we HAD to correlate gun ownership rates to
murder by firearm rates we'd first have to find out how many
individuals legally own self-defense firearms and who legally carry
them in the US versus those in the UK who do the same <wink wink>.

So, again, who cares? They're not supposed to have guns and if gun
bans - or gun laws in general, for that matter - actually worked then
the UK murder by firearms rate would be ZERO and I would actually have
something to account for in regards to my position on guns. Rephrasing
the question doesn't change the answer in any way, shape or form.
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