Re: Re: knife ban going to work?

["Brian Loe" <knobdy () gmail com>]

On 5/26/06, Drsolly <drsollyp () drsolly com> wrote:
> > Technically you CAN'T remove them, the data isn't stored that way.
> > However, one can propose that if drugs were legal, and gangs weren't
> > fighting over them, the would do less killing. These are business
> > killings. Its like including military kills in a murder rate, in my
> > book.
>
> You have an odd book. In everyone else's book, business killings are still
> murder. If drugs were legal, then it would still be a business, and there
> would still be business killings.

Business, military, whatever...
Again, this has nothing to do with the point being made.


> > Further, you have the relationship between environment and violent
> > crime. You're not going to try and say your slums match ours are you?
> > Point is still, gun ownership is not related to murder rate.
>
> I'm willing to believe that the slums in the "richest country in the
> world" are worse than ours, although you might not have seen parts of
> Glasgow, Birmingham and London.

I don't have to, I've been to New York, Chicago, St. Louis, DC, LA,
KC... shall I go on? I believe the World Factbook shows the UK as
being slightly smaller than the state of Oregon (Portland slums
anyone?!), figure it out.

> > > > The UK - you keep happily dismissing - has the same number of
> > > > homicides with guns in 00/01 as it had in 1998. THAT gives evidence
> > > > that the murder rate isn't tied to gun ownership, does it not?
> > >
> > > I don't see how you deduce that.
> >
> > I deduce that from seeing the number of homicides for the UK and Wales
> > dip from 95 levels and then start to climb back up again (it might not
> > have topped off yet!).
>
> So, we have a static murder rate, and a static gun ownership rate, and
> you're deducing something from that. Well, you can't.

Huh? Are you blind? Do you only read what you want to read? ITS NOT STATIC!!!

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicollinearity
>
> >
> > > What it says, is that we have a static
> > > murder rate.
> >
> > No, its not static and its totally unaffected by the gun ban.

Oh, forgot to respond to this point?

> >
> > > And it's good that the US murder rate is falling, and I hope
> > > that it gets down to UK levels.
> >
> > Yeah, it is good, and its happening without a gun ban!
> >
> > What are you missing here - gun ownership is not related to murder
> > rates. At best, the ability of an individual to defend oneself with
> > the most appropriate tool may reduce violent crime.
>
> What you're missing here is that it isn't people that kill people, it's
> people plus weapons that kill people, and a gun is probably the easiest
> weapon for that purpose. And that, of course, is why you want to own a
> gun.

Dumbest friggin' thing I have ever read - and a LIE. Again, according
to YOUR HOME OFFICE, murders with fists and feet make up half the
murder rate!!!

Quit this, you're just being dishonest and its plain stupid to
continue. I give you a fact from your own country and you give me some
emotional, knee-jerk, feel-good BS. I personally DO NOT CARE if you
like guns. I don't care if you ever reconsider your position on the
subject. I just want you to stop spreading lies about it.

_______________________________________________
Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.