Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release
From: Strategic Reconnaissance Team <recon () snosoft com>
Date: 29 Jan 2003 14:38:23 -0500
Right, We are discussing the ideas of releasing or not releasing full proof of concept code. When working with a vendor, all code release is off and everything is done under strict MNDA or NDA. However, if we do release exploits again for non=vendor related projects, one of our concerns is that it might affect future relationships. For example, company X might be turned off by us because we find a large amount of issues with their software. We notify them, then 45 days later release proof of concept code. I'll bet that they would never work with us under contract after that. How to avoid that is also a good add in for this topic. We want to do what is morally and ethically correct, but we also do not by any means want to harm the security industry. On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 12:46, hellNbak wrote:
Thanks for adding zero value Ron. We are not talking about working with vendors or notifying vendors. I made the assumption that the Snosoft guys have their own policy on what to do with vendors. We have our own at NMRC and we are quite willing to work with a vendor. But that is not what we are discussing here. On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Ron DuFresne wrote:Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:35:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ron DuFresne <dufresne () winternet com> To: hellNbak <hellnbak () nmrc org> Cc: Strategic Reconnaissance Team <recon () snosoft com>, Nicolas Villatte <Nicolas.Villatte () advalvas be>, full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: Re: RE : RE : [Full-disclosure] [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, hellNbak wrote: [SNIP]So I say release the code, try and make it as crippled as possible (localhost only or whatever) so at least you know that *your* code won't be directly used for malicious intent. Yeah exploits and malicious code/worms/virus'/whatever will still exist and be abused but regardless of what you and anyone else for that matter do it always will. At least with releasing code you can take comfort in knowing that you are helping those who cannot help themselves. That is of course if you believe in helping others and don't just release advisories for the media-whoring marketing purposes (hello to my friends at ISS ;p).What's interesting about the disclosure debates in their various forms, is that it has been ongoing since the first earliest security lists, <check the http://securitydigest.org/ site>. In fact, the debate seemed to be at time a near show stopper for a number of the early lists, at times they never got much beyond the topic, for long periods of time, and some lists died or went stagemant while enthralled within the discussion process>. And, to this day it persists. Though the trend has been softened with the term "responsible" prepended. In that light, rather then issueing a quick advisory with a borked exploit enclosed, it might be better to issue the warning, after first letting the vendor<s> in question know of your findings and giving them at least a modicum of time to ingest your work, then later down the road, posting the code you developed. Perhaps allowing a large portion of those exposed, to fix their sites and be prepared for the coming mess of adverse packets? Thanks, Ron DuFresne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation." -- Johnny Hart ***testing, only testing, and damn good at it too!*** OK, so you're a Ph.D. Just don't touch anything.
-- Strategic Reconnaissance Team <recon () snosoft com> Secure Network Operations, Inc.
Attachment:
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Current thread:
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release, (continued)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release KF (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Steve Poirot (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Berend-Jan Wever (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release ATD (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Strategic Reconnaissance Team (Jan 28)
- RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Nicolas Villatte (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Strategic Reconnaissance Team (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release hellNbak (Jan 28)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Ron DuFresne (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release hellNbak (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Strategic Reconnaissance Team (Jan 29)
- RE : RE : RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.]FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Nicolas Villatte (Jan 29)
- R: [Secure Network Operations, Inc.]FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Andrea Vecchio (Jan 29)
- Re: R: [Secure Network Operations, Inc.]FullDisclosure != Exploit Release Strategic Reconnaissance Team (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Blue Boar (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Strategic Reconnaissance Team (Jan 29)
- Re: RE : [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Blue Boar (Jan 29)
- RE: [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Richard M. Smith (Jan 29)
- RE: [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Day Jay (Jan 29)
- RE: [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure != Exploit Release Richard M. Smith (Jan 29)
- [Secure Network Operations, Inc.] Full Disclosure Conclusion? ATD (Jan 29)