IDS mailing list archives
RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering
From: "Craig Wright" <Craig.Wright () bdo com au>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:12:21 +1100
You have misread this. SSL filters and controls are not a public network - but rather a private netwok issue. You have ignored section 4 and its effect on 1 and 2. As strange as it may seem, I have published material on Romanian law. It has the benefit of being a romanic legal system and thus the statute is taken at face value. S. 1 and 2 are to be taken into the effect of: "The provisions of paragraphs (1) and (2) shall not affect any legally authorised recording of communications and the related traffic data when carried out in the course of lawful business practice for the purpose of providing evidence of a commercial transaction or of a business communication." Interception for the protection of a business network by one with authority (in the firm) is legal. Regards, Dr Craig Wright (GSE-Compliance) Craig Wright Manager of Information Systems Direct : +61 2 9286 5497 Craig.Wright () bdo com au +61 417 683 914 BDO Kendalls (NSW) Level 19, 2 Market Street Sydney NSW 2000 GPO BOX 2551 Sydney NSW 2001 Fax +61 2 9993 9497 www.bdo.com.au Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation in respect of matters arising within those States and Territories of Australia where such legislation exists. The information in this email and any attachments is confidential. If you are not the named addressee you must not read, print, copy, distribute, or use in any way this transmission or any information it contains. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by return email, destroy all copies and delete it from your system. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and not necessarily endorsed by BDO Kendalls. You may not rely on this message as advice unless subsequently confirmed by fax or letter signed by a Partner or Director of BDO Kendalls. It is your responsibility to scan this communication and any files attached for computer viruses and other defects. BDO Kendalls does not accept liability for any loss or damage however caused which may result from this communication or any files attached. A full version of the BDO Kendalls disclaimer, and our Privacy statement, can be found on the BDO Kendalls website at http://www.bdo.com.au or by emailing administrator () bdo com au. BDO Kendalls is a national association of separate partnerships and entities. ________________________________ From: Marian Ion [mailto:marian.ion () e-licitatie ro] Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 9:06 PM To: Craig Wright; focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering First of all, sorry for the large reply; Secondly, in Romania, where I live, Art. 4 from Law 506/2004, regarding the processing of personal data and the protection of private life in telecommunication, specifies the following: Article 4 Confidentiality of the communications (1) The confidentiality of communications and the related traffic data by means of public electronic communications networks and publicly available electronic communications services is guaranteed. (2) Listening, tapping, storage or other kinds of interception or surveillance of communications and the related traffic data are prohibited, except for the following cases: a) these operations are carried out by the users who participate in that communication; b) the users who participate in that communication have previously given their written consent; c) these operations are carried out by the competent authorities, under the conditions set out by the legal provisions in force. (3) The provisions of paragraphs (1) and (2) shall not prevent technical storage which is necessary for the conveyance of a communication without prejudice to the principle of confidentiality. (4) The provisions of paragraphs (1) and (2) shall not affect any legally authorised recording of communications and the related traffic data when carried out in the course of lawful business practice for the purpose of providing evidence of a commercial transaction or of a business communication. (5) The use of an electronic communications network to store information or to gain access to information stored in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user is only allowed on condition that: a) the subscriber or user concerned was provided with clear and comprehensive information in accordance with Art. 12 of Law no. 677/2001, inter alia about the purposes of the storage or access to information stored; and b) the subscriber or user concerned was offered the possibility to refuse such storage or access to information stored. (6) The provisions of paragraph (5) shall not prevent the technical storage or access in the following cases: a) when these operations are performed for the sole purpose of carrying out or facilitating the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network; b) when these operations are strictly necessary for the provision of an information society service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user. For the full text: (http://www.legi-internet.ro/index.php/Romania_Law_no_506_2004_on/81/0/?&L=2 ) So in my opinion (and I'm not a jurist), interfering in an encrypted communication implies "interception or surveillance of communications and the related traffic data", as well as "technically" listening to that communication, much more than a firewall or IDS do. In addition, ... can you imagine a business based on trust and confidentiality, provided through an enterprise (or provider) IPS that intercepts and modifies all encrypted traffic? marian -----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Craig Wright Sent: 11 December 2007 19:21 To: Marian Ion; focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering What law? Enterprise deployments own the data. This is not allowed in a US Federal University environment due to specific requirements against monitoring, but WHAT law? Regards, Dr Craig Wright (GSE-Compliance) Craig Wright Manager of Information Systems Direct : +61 2 9286 5497 Craig.Wright () bdo com au +61 417 683 914 BDO Kendalls (NSW) Level 19, 2 Market Street Sydney NSW 2000 GPO BOX 2551 Sydney NSW 2001 Fax +61 2 9993 9497 www.bdo.com.au Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation in respect of matters arising within those States and Territories of Australia where such legislation exists. The information in this email and any attachments is confidential. If you are not the named addressee you must not read, print, copy, distribute, or use in any way this transmission or any information it contains. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by return email, destroy all copies and delete it from your system. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and not necessarily endorsed by BDO Kendalls. You may not rely on this message as advice unless subsequently confirmed by fax or letter signed by a Partner or Director of BDO Kendalls. It is your responsibility to scan this communication and any files attached for computer viruses and other defects. BDO Kendalls does not accept liability for any loss or damage however caused which may result from this communication or any files attached. A full version of the BDO Kendalls disclaimer, and our Privacy statement, can be found on the BDO Kendalls website at http://www.bdo.com.au or by emailing administrator () bdo com au. BDO Kendalls is a national association of separate partnerships and entities. ________________________________ From: listbounce () securityfocus com on behalf of Marian Ion Sent: Tue 11/12/2007 5:06 PM To: focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Isn't this an interference in an encrypted communication, penalized by the law? And ... as a user, how can you trust the confidentiality this communication when you found out about? marian -----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Ravi Chunduru Sent: 08 December 2007 18:33 To: focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering it seems that some network IPS devices and application firewalls are not only providing SSL based HTTP inspection on server side, but also on client side (i know of one IPS device which is in beta testing). i understand that it is required as attacks can be sent in SSL to avoid blocking. when deployed on client side, these devices resign certificates (of public servers) with local CA certificate. i see two aspects to it - users need to trust local authority (enterprise administrators) and second is users will have false sense of security (that is users are no longer see the actual CA of server certificate). any comments on acceptance of this functionality in enterprise deployments? is there any standard mechanism (in SSL standard or in HTTP standard) to send actual CA certificate to the browser by forward proxies? thanks Ravi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.coresecurity.com/index.php5?module=Form&action=impact&campaign=in tro_sfw to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.coresecurity.com/index.php5?module=Form&action=impact&campaign=in tro_sfw to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.coresecurity.com/index.php5?module=Form&action=impact&campaign=in tro_sfw to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.coresecurity.com/index.php5?module=Form&action=impact&campaign=intro_sfw to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Ravi Chunduru (Dec 10)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Marian Ion (Dec 11)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Craig Wright (Dec 11)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Marian Ion (Dec 12)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Craig Wright (Dec 12)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Craig Wright (Dec 11)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Scalcione.David (Dec 11)
- Re: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Tremaine Lea (Dec 12)
- Re: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Joseph Jenkins (Dec 12)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Marian Ion (Dec 11)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Alexandru Bradescu-Popa (Dec 11)
- RE: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering Nelson Brito (Dec 11)
- Re: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering crazy frog crazy frog (Dec 12)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: SSL - Man-in-the-Middle filtering carlh2007 (Dec 10)