Firewall Wizards mailing list archives
Re: Firewalls that generate new packets..
From: Darren Reed <darrenr () reed wattle id au>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:16:50 -0800
Darden, Patrick S. wrote:
Marcus J. Ranum ...The hard thing I had to wrap my brain around was the observation that between a router+ACLs combined with the state that is held in the TCP stack of the target, you've got exactly the same thing (and often quite a bit better!) than a "stateful" firewall.I respecfully disagree for all the reasons I have outlined before.... Sum: tcp sequence #s make a difference.
So long as you mean "tcp sequence#s" to mean modelling the entire TCP connection state, yes. The implication that you're missing is that the TCP window also needs to be tracked (including whether or not window scaling is being used), along with which flags appeared at which sequence numbers so you know what to expect next. e.g the SYN and FIN flags impact sequence numbers without there being an explicit change in the headers. If you go to the extreme of only allowing in sequence TCP packets and ensure that retransmitted data is always the same as the original, you could argue that the "stateful inspection" mode here becomes a layer 5 firewall rather than layer 3 or 4. And that's without a proxy :) Darren _______________________________________________ firewall-wizards mailing list firewall-wizards () listserv icsalabs com https://listserv.icsalabs.com/mailman/listinfo/firewall-wizards
Current thread:
- ***SPAM*** Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.., (continued)
- ***SPAM*** Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Dave Piscitello (Nov 30)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Patrick M. Hausen (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Paul D. Robertson (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Marcus J. Ranum (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Marcus J. Ranum (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Darden, Patrick S. (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Tina Bird (Nov 27)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. J. Oquendo (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Darren Reed (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Darden, Patrick S. (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Darren Reed (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Darden, Patrick S. (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Paul D. Robertson (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Darden, Patrick S. (Nov 29)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Paul D. Robertson (Nov 29)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Darden, Patrick S. (Nov 30)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. AMuse (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Marcus J. Ranum (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. AMuse (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Patrick M. Hausen (Nov 28)
- Re: Firewalls that generate new packets.. Marcin Antkiewicz (Nov 27)