Educause Security Discussion mailing list archives
Re: password length and required reset
From: randy <marchany () VT EDU>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2016 13:24:12 -0400
A couple of observations: 1. Password expiration - This is almost always implemented to comply with an existing regulation (PCI, NIST800-53, NIST 800-171, state IT security regs, etc.). In other words, it's an auditor issue not a technical issue. I don't like password expiration personally but the reality is that we have to implement it. We can argue on its merits but this is one case when external regs/standards force our hand. 2. Password length - this is a "it depends" on the vendor issue. If I remember correctly, Windows maximum password length is 127 chars. However, most apps can't handle passwords that long. Microsoft accounts (Live, Outlook, Hotmail etc) have a maximum limit of 16 characters only <http://forum.thewindowsclub.com/windows-clubhouse/34485-how-short-long-can-microsoft-account-password.html>. Yahoo and Google allow 32 and 200 characters respectively. Windows login and Microsoft account minimum password length is 8 chars. Windows 10 local account (NOT Microsoft Account) passwords can range from 8-127 chars. ON the linux side, it depends (sorry, couldn't help myself) on whether you use MD5, SHA-256/512, Blowfish. Apple sorta falls in the same category in that there isn't a max password length generic restriction. Then there's vendor's password requirements......or should I say lack of requirements..... 3. I don't like password vaults for the simple reason that the vaults have been targetted by hackers. I prefer something like SHA1_PASS which takes a phrase + keyword to generate 20 or 40 char password. For example, secret phrase = "thisismysecretphrase" and my keyword is "google" the result is "d3263bc7a70f3a2a0e24af397b5c99837114b1cb". If I need a special char, I add it at the end. No passwords are permanently stored anywhere. We suggest to our users that they pick a phrase and use the keyword to describe whatever service they're accessing. My example would be generating the Gmail password. If I wanted my appleid password, secret phrase = "this ismysecretphrase" (as before) with new keyword of "appleid" which gives me "5f3450e2221ac66115998847b64f1c85e5c9b314". Google SHA1_Pass to find it. -r. On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Steven Alexander < steven.alexander () kccd edu> wrote:
Brad, Password reuse is obviously a problem but I think you can largely prevent this by using stronger password requirements. Most sites still require only 6-8 character passwords. If you require much longer passwords (e.g. 15 characters), it will be much less likely that users will reuse passwords from other sites because they won't meet the requirements. If you can implement a filter, blacklisting common and previously cracked passwords would also help. Regards, Steven Alexander Director of IT Security Kern Community College District (661) 336-5111 -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Security Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Judy Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 7:19 AM To: SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU Subject: Re: [SECURITY] password length and required reset Most of the services you mention offer opt-in, or mandatory, multifactor authentication and many have pretty advanced automated systems for detecting suspicious logins/activities. That said, the only reason I like limited password life for our industry is because it ensures people don’t use the same passwords for our systems as third-party systems. If you have to change your password once every 6-12 months at your EDU, it’s unlikely you run around changing your password elsewhere to match. At its root, password expiration is a control to address an undetected, unrepeatable compromise of credentials. If the attack is detected, you can force a password reset. If the attack is repeatable (like phishing or a keylogger), then the attacker can get the new password as well. Some of the origins are in the idea of an attacker stealing your password store and cracking it, but these days the more common version of the threat is someone stealing an external password store, cracking it and then using the email/password combo to attack their email account (and related accounts). If you want to have immortal passwords, then ask yourself what detection and response capabilities you have, as well as your options for stronger authentication mechanisms where appropriate. Brad Judy Information Security Officer Office of Information Security University of Colorado 1800 Grant Street, Suite 300 Denver, CO 80203 Office: (303) 860-4293 Fax: (303) 860-4302 www.cu.edu <http://www.cu.edu/> On 10/10/16, 7:09 AM, "The EDUCAUSE Security Constituent Group Listserv on behalf of Mike Cunningham" <SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU on behalf of mike.cunningham () PCT EDU> wrote: Thanks for the feedback. How do you counter the argument that no other online service that requires passwords have any set time limit on a password, and they are sites with much more sensitive information. Bank sites, credit card sites, amazon, paypal, gmail, yahoo, Hotmail, outlook.com phone companies, Netflix, etc. I can't think of any service that I have myself that requires me to change a password on a regular basis and that is how students view us, as just another online service. I am 100% in favor of employees needing to reset a password since their access gives them access to other peoples data but for students they only have access to their own data so password mismanagement only puts their own data at risk, just like on any of those other services. Mike Cunningham -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Security Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU] On Behalf Of Boyd, Daniel Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 8:42 AM To: SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU Subject: Re: [SECURITY] password length and required reset You are correct in thinking that 12 characters will help. If you run passwords through most any analyzer, that 12th character adds a tremendous amount of time to the decryption process... but will not help if common phrases, titles, and sequences are used. We recently moved all faculty, staff and service accounts to a 90-day password reset cycle, with a history of 6. We are considering a minimum password age of 2 days, but have not implemented that change yet. We recommend the password to be a minimum of 8, but no longer than 13 characters (any longer and Office365 complains, at least as of August of this year) and cannot contain three consecutive characters of their username. It also must have a capital letter and a number or symbol. It has taken a number of years to push this policy amid lots of grumbling from staff and faculty. We got buy-in from administration by explaining our reasons for implementing, we communicated the change effectively to the community and so far, have not had significant backlash. We considered having two different policies for staff and faculty, but decided it was in everyone's best interest to enforce the stricter policy (whether they believed it or not). Students have all the same requirements except the max age for their password is 180 days. No issues there either, as this is explained at orientation. While it frustrates a tiny percentage, it is an acceptably low percentage. The key is effective communication and simple explanation of the reasons why this is important. Good luck with any changes you make. Dan Daniel H. Boyd (94C) Senior Network Architect Network Operations Information Security Advisory Group Chair Berry College Phone: 706-236-1750 Fax: 706-238-5824 There are two rules to follow with your account passwords: 1. NEVER SEND YOUR PASSWORD VIA EMAIL (TO ANYONE)!!!!! 2. If unsure, consult rule #1 -----Original Message----- From: Mike Cunningham [mailto:mike.cunningham () PCT EDU] Sent: Friday, October 07, 2016 3:29 PM Subject: password length and required reset We current have a password length rule of 6 with a password expiration of 180 days. We are considering changing that to a length of 12 with a recommendation to use a pass phrase, and no expiration. Students can want to can change their password daily or never. We believe the longer length requirement will make the password so much stronger that the password reset is no longer needed. This change is for students ONLY. Employees will still have a password recent requirement. Thanks Mike Cunningham VP of Information Technology Services/CIO Pennsylvania College of Technology
Current thread:
- Re: password length and required reset, (continued)
- Re: password length and required reset randy (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Mike Cunningham (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Barnes, William (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Brad Judy (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Steven Alexander (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Dale Lee (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Brad Judy (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Steven Alexander (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset randy (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset Brad Judy (Oct 10)
- Re: password length and required reset randy (Oct 10)